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Another Ammo question

Old 12-07-2008, 02:28 PM
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Default Another Ammo question

I know there was another thread a while back but I have a specific question. I have some .357 mags that are 25 yrs old, would you trust them?
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Another Ammo question

Don't see why they would not be ok, I would not depend on them for self defense but would not hesitate trying them in the backyard/range or where ever you shoot
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

Storage conditions are everything and especially if they were exposed to anything like WD40 or other invasive lubricants that would de-prime the primers.

If they've been stored in a dry environment, they ought to be fine. Like tprice said, enjoy them at the range and get new stuff for home defense. If you have kids in the house or neighbors living very close, consider getting rat-shot rounds for the gun. They make a big noise, they will hit whatever's in front of you and they will not penetrate sheetrock walls.

I'd rather blind an assailant with the first shot or two than miss (from my sleepy/shaky hand) and let them coolly unload on me.
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Old 12-07-2008, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: Another Ammo question

They are in the basement and would be used for home defense. Guess i should just buy new ones and not worry about it. Thanks guys.
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: Another Ammo question

Nicmegmatt - 12/7/2008 5:57 PM

They are in the basement and would be used for home defense. Guess i should just buy new ones and not worry about it. Thanks guys.

Yep, if you really need them your REALLY WILL NEED THEM. New box is less than $20
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

As stated they are great for the range but for self defense just buy some new stuff... Also I would NOT load my self defense pistol with rat shot (thats bad advice)... If you are worried about over penetration drop down to .38 special loads and buy Mag Safe or Glaser home defense ammo. This stuff is designed to only penetrated anywhere from 6 to 10 inches of soft tissue and fragments when hitting anything solid and is designed not to penetrate sheet rock.

http://www.magsafeonline.com/
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

Thanks for the heads up on Mag Safe or Glaser home defense ammo, Cracker. I haven't shopped ammo in years and am happy with the knowledge.

Rat shot is my first two rounds, followed by a couple of OO buckshot rounds and ended with two HP rounds. Figure I'll blind them, then at least have a couple of OO going out and if I'm at #5 and 6 and still standing, the bad guy will be awfully close by then and I can't miss.

Why the negative comments about rat-shot, though? As a killing item, they aren't, but for the purpose I intend, is there something you know that you'd like to share?
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:47 PM
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Cracker - 12/7/2008 6:37 PM

As stated they are great for the range but for self defense just buy some new stuff... Also I would NOT load my self defense pistol with rat shot (thats bad advice)... If you are worried about over penetration drop down to .38 special loads and buy Mag Safe or Glaser home defense ammo. This stuff is designed to only penetrated anywhere from 6 to 10 inches of soft tissue and fragments when hitting anything solid and is designed not to penetrate sheet rock.

http://www.magsafeonline.com/
I also have my 9mm loaded with fresh ammo.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

Any ammo for self defense should be of the leathal type. Just use a good quality hollow point.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:41 PM
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How do you properly disspose of old ammo?
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:04 PM
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The Classic - 12/8/2008 8:29 AM

Any ammo for self defense should be of the leathal type. Just use a good quality hollow point.


Best advice in this thread so far. You do NOT want to use lethal force with ammo designed for in-home use because behind every dead perp is a family waiting to sue you.

Everyone that intends to defend themselves with lethal force should educate themselves on how the whole process works, both criminally and civilly. If you are ever in a situation where you must protect yourself with lethal force, you will want to cooperate with the police but you do NOT talk to them except through a criminal defense attorney. Educate yourself on how to do this properly BEFORE you have to. Know that you will be sued by surviving family. Know how to defend against that lawsuit BEFORE you have to. Hint: you want to use regular old ammo in a regular old gun, nothing designed specifically for self defense. And NEVER mix ammo types in a weapon you will use for defense.

If you ever use lethal force, budget about $20k for the experience. And this is only if everything goes in your favor.

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Old 12-07-2008, 05:06 PM
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Nicmegmatt - 12/8/2008 8:41 AM

How do you properly disspose of old ammo?
At the range. Or, use pliers to pull out the bullet, dump the powered in your garden (it's fertilizer), and spray a little WD-40 into each empty case. Toss the pieces in the trash.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

Eyeball - I do not understand the meaning of the sentence,

"you do not want to use lethal force with ammo designed for home defense"

What is wrong with this ammunition? Is home defense ammunition different in some way that makes you more at risk for suit?
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:35 PM
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your local sheriff will usually accept old ammo and dispose of it properly. At least down here in Texas they will. To the original poster, go get you a fresh box of Federal hydrashocks and you should be fine as far as home defense is concerned. +P if your weapon is capable of handling it.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

ggibby - 12/7/2008 7:23 PM

Eyeball - I do not understand the meaning of the sentence,

"you do not want to use lethal force with ammo designed for home defense"

What is wrong with this ammunition? Is home defense ammunition different in some way that makes you more at risk for suit?
I think he is talking about frangible ammo like the glazier safety slug and rat shot. The point of those is to not over penetrate through walls. The trouble is that something that won't penetrate a wall won't penetrate a bad guy either.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:55 PM
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The Classic - 12/8/2008 11:40 AM

ggibby - 12/7/2008 7:23 PM

Eyeball - I do not understand the meaning of the sentence,

"you do not want to use lethal force with ammo designed for home defense"

What is wrong with this ammunition? Is home defense ammunition different in some way that makes you more at risk for suit?
I think he is talking about frangible ammo like the glazier safety slug and rat shot. The point of those is to not over penetrate through walls. The trouble is that something that won't penetrate a wall won't penetrate a bad guy either.

Well, no, that's not what I was thinking, tho it can be a concern if the bad guy is wearing a heavy leather jacket.

If you use lethal force with ammo designed for lethal force it begs the question; did you shoot because you had to or because you wanted to use your lethal force toys. Think: civil lawsuit. Like I said above, if you use lethal force, you will be sued. You never want to be in a position of having to defend against the accusation you wanted to kill someone for any reason, however justified. You want to 'stop' a threat, not kill someone. If they die during the course of you stopping that threat, so be it.

If a .357 is too much oomph for home defense, get the right gun and the right ammo for the job. Once the cops decide your use of lethal force was justified, they are though with you. But the surviving family of the dead guy will just be getting started. You will be sued.

Find a place local to you that teaches home defense, preferably by off duty cops. Sign up and take the course. Best defense in a lawsuit is that you did what cops taught you to do.

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Old 12-07-2008, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

guess you don't have a castle doctrine in your state eyeball. I don't have to back down and can use lethal force to defend myself in my home, my place of business, and my vehicle. When I shoot at someone I am absolutely shooting them with deadly intent and thats what I will tell the cops and the grand jury. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Old 12-08-2008, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

Eyeball (and others) - thanks for the explanation. The idea of taking a course taught by law enforcement and doing what they say is intriguing.

I'm in Florida and we now have a law that (as it is written at least) says we have a defense (right) to use deadly force without any duty to retreat from a place that we have a lawful right to be (I think I have that right...just took the concealed weapons course....but haven't memorized it yet). At any rate it appears to cover house and vehicle for sure.

Is that different from the state in which you live? I'm 100% in favor of avoiding suit, but I want to be SURE that my wife can STOP the guy.

thanks,
gordon
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

ggibby - 12/8/2008 4:31 AM

Eyeball (and others) - thanks for the explanation. The idea of taking a course taught by law enforcement and doing what they say is intriguing.

I'm in Florida and we now have a law that (as it is written at least) says we have a defense (right) to use deadly force without any duty to retreat from a place that we have a lawful right to be (I think I have that right...just took the concealed weapons course....but haven't memorized it yet). At any rate it appears to cover house and vehicle for sure.

Is that different from the state in which you live? I'm 100% in favor of avoiding suit, but I want to be SURE that my wife can STOP the guy.

thanks,
gordon
Gordon,
I am a Florida Cop and choose whichever ammo you need. If overpenetration is not an issue use hollow points if it is use the MagSafe or Glaser type stuff, just do not use rat shot, the old I will just blind them idea is bunk and yes if using lethal force you wanna put the guy down and stop the threat, That means shooting center of mass and head shots if the body shots are ineffective.. Recent law changes in Florida do protect you Criminally but as stated understand there maybe Civil issues that arise but again in Florida or any other castle doctrine state that is probably rare and of course you and your family is alive to worry about that later...
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Another Ammo question

In my state using a gun is lethal force. Be it a gun with rat shot or a baseball bat or a 50 cal.

Rat shot probably won't even make it through a bad guy's jacket. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot30_3.htm

Buck shot out of a pistol is lethal enough but not that effective. You might as well just use a good bullet. You don't want to limit yourself to 2 rounds that will work when your family is at sake.
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