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Auto bailout

Old 12-04-2008, 01:22 PM
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Default Auto bailout

Anybody want to wager that washington will keep it contributors afloat?

(From Drudge) It seems that the domestic auto companies might be running out of cash, but still spent millions this year to keep politicians happy, and full of funds:

CBS) As Congress mulls over a bailout for U.S. automakers, some may be thinking about more than jobs and the economy.
The auto industry spent nearly $50 million lobbying Congress in the first nine months of this year.

And people tied to the auto industry gave another $15 million in campaign contributions, CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports.

It's not surprising that a lot of that money went to members of Congress from Michigan, where the auto industry is the biggest employer and politicians are passionate advocates for their constituents.

Take Sen. Carl Levin, who received $438,304 from the automotive industry. And in the House, Rep. Joe Knollenberg received $879,327. Rep. John Dingell got nearly a million from the industry. All have enjoyed generous support from the auto industry over their careers, with GM and Ford as their two top contributors. All support a bailout.


I don't necessarily blame the auto companies here. Politicians basically run a protection racket, although I believe that we can tie much of the auto industry's troubles to government. What the state "gives," it also takes away.

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Old 12-04-2008, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Auto bailout

bsmit24 - 12/5/2008 5:22 AM

As Congress mulls over a bailout for U.S. automakers, ...
Who better to decide if the auto industry needs to be bailed out, and how to do it, than the very same folks that brought us over $50-trillion in national debt. It's not like any congress critters have an business sense.

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Old 12-04-2008, 03:51 PM
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How could you not bail them out?, they showed up today in hybrids. Stupid, fake BS, they will give them the money, they want to act like they made them really work for it after embaressing them at the last begging session.
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:15 PM
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MacCTD - 12/4/2008 6:51 PM

How could you not bail them out?, they showed up today in hybrids. Stupid, fake BS, they will give them the money, they want to act like they made them really work for it after embaressing them at the last begging session.
The Ford Escape is the only actual hybrid which is in production today. Chrysler SEO showed up in a Jeep Wrangler Hybrid. No such car exists today and there is no plan to build one in the future. GM CEO showed up in a Volt EV - not in production....and it can only go 40 miles on a charge so how did he get from Detroit to DC? What a joke.
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

anyone going to bail me (small business owner ) out?

Nope.

Let em do what I would have to do.
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:37 PM
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Its like bailing out the people with bad credit you can't teach an old dog new tricks. They are still going to pay morons 75 bucks an house to do stuff a monkey can do, and they are gonna keep on making cars no one wants.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:39 PM
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FireFly - 12/4/2008 7:15 PM


Chrysler SEO showed up in a Jeep Wrangler Hybrid.
LOL - and that would get what, 15 miles per charge ?? Wranglers aren't exactly the most aerodynamic vechicles
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

LittleMrs - 12/4/2008 9:39 PM
FireFly - 12/4/2008 7:15 PM Chrysler SEO showed up in a Jeep Wrangler Hybrid.
LOL - and that would get what, 15 miles per charge ?? Wranglers aren't exactly the most aerodynamic vechicles
Fear not, the Wrangler's got the new unobtainium battery that's good for 10,000 miles between charges, provided it's all downhill [img]../images/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

Try this bit of logic:

At the current value of GM's stock, the feds could buy every share of stock and own the company outright for about $3 billion.

Why pay $19 billion to bail it out and get part ownership?
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:30 AM
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kerno - 12/5/2008 11:26 AM

Try this bit of logic:

At the current value of GM's stock, the feds could buy every share of stock and own the company outright for about $3 billion.

Why pay $19 billion to bail it out and get part ownership?
How about you, myself and a few other THT'ers pool our money and do a hostile take over at 3bil. Then we take the feds 19bil, fire everyone, sell off the vehicles which make money and shut it all down. I figure we'd probably walk away with at least $15bil profit.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

kerno - 12/5/2008 11:26 AM

Try this bit of logic:

At the current value of GM's stock, the feds could buy every share of stock and own the company outright for about $3 billion.

Why pay $19 billion to bail it out and get part ownership?
Umm, because after they bought the stock, they would still have to fund cash deficits for the foreseable future, or let them disappear, or do what they should do - a managed bankruptcy that gets their current and retirement plan costs back to viable market levels.

But your point is well taken - I like the idea of buying them outright, fixing them with restructuring, and then selling the stock at a profit.
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

FireFly - 12/5/2008 7:30 AM

kerno - 12/5/2008 11:26 AM

Try this bit of logic:

At the current value of GM's stock, the feds could buy every share of stock and own the company outright for about $3 billion.

Why pay $19 billion to bail it out and get part ownership?
How about you, myself and a few other THT'ers pool our money and do a hostile take over at 3bil. Then we take the feds 19bil, fire everyone, sell off the vehicles which make money and shut it all down. I figure we'd probably walk away with at least $15bil profit.
I'm in for $1 mil.

"Snapper Head Motors" has a nice ring to it.

My salary will be one dollar a year. I will assume zero stock, but will have negotiated options to become active 12 months and one day after the company first achieves a profit.

We will NOT build hybrid vehicles. There is NO alternative energy source. I repeat, there is NO alternative energy source. We will build V10, V12, & V16 motors (or engines, if you are so inclined) that get 20 mpg and better, even in a one ton truck.

Get ready, this is the real American Revolution.


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Old 12-05-2008, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: Auto bailout

If the Wall Street gang is worth 8.5 trillion with no strings attached and no grilling by CONgress

Surely, the blue collar workers are worth some chump change? aren't they?
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

Didn't the we already bail out Chrysler back in the 1970s?
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Old 12-05-2008, 09:51 AM
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Any they paid it all back with interest.

If the auto industry falls, so does our country.

Does anyone think that if they go bankrupt and don't pay their suppliers, that the suppliers will survive too?

If the suppliers take the hit, they will go out too, for good.

Who do you think actually makes all the parts? Not the auto companies. They just design, assemble and market them.




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Old 12-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

I think it's time for them and the oil companies to take the "secret technology" off the shelf that they bought up, that allows big iron cars to get 100 miles per gallon. Problem solved.
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Old 12-05-2008, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Auto bailout

ESSRTEE8 - 12/5/2008 8:51 AM


Does anyone think that if they go bankrupt and don't pay their suppliers, that the suppliers will survive too?

I do.

Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean going out of business. It might, but not necessarily. Vehicles will be purchased, which means that they will be built, which means that there will be a need for suppliers.

Unit support = unit support; whether it is Fords; Chevy's; Toyota's; whatever. So many units will be built, bought, and sold. If the big 3 are not around to build them, everyone else will. The demand for parts will not change. It will on a very temporary basis, but not long term. A certain number of vehicles will be built in the next 12 months; whether or not the big 3 are around.

The big 3 will be around, at least one, possibly two, if the bailout does not come through (it will). Someone will buy the companies or wait and buy the assets and start up "Snapper Head Motors". Despite what the U.A.W. would like folks to believe, we are a Capitalist society and that dynamic does work.

It may be raining like hell, but the sky is not falling.


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Old 12-05-2008, 12:54 PM
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Snapper Head - 12/5/2008 2:23 PM
ESSRTEE8 - 12/5/2008 8:51 AM Does anyone think that if they go bankrupt and don't pay their suppliers, that the suppliers will survive too?
I do. Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean going out of business. . . .
Correct. It's called Chapter 11. The company stays in business and has temporaryprotection from it's creditors while it restructures. I don't know why that isn't the present course of action being pursued by the automakers at this time. Chapter 7 is when the company actually goes under due to bankruptcy.
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:03 PM
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Chapter 11 the POS companies. The fed can provide DIP financing. The CBA's should be tossed out and the unfunded pensions sent to the PBGC (the bene's can expect significant benefit cuts). The union wages should be benchmarked to the nonunion wage scales of the autobuilders in the south. CAFE standards should be scraped and the CEO compensation shouldn't be touched. The current stockholders should lose everything and the creditors should receive massive principle haircuts.
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Old 12-05-2008, 01:06 PM
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Tireless - 12/5/2008 4:03 PM

Chapter 11 the POS companies. The fed can provide DIP financing. The CBA's should be tossed out and the unfunded pensions sent to the PBGC (the bene's can expect significant benefit cuts). The union wages should be benchmarked to the nonunion wage scales of the autobuilders in the south. CAFE standards should be scraped and the CEO compensation shouldn't be touched. The current stockholders should lose everything and the creditors should receive massive principle haircuts.
Yes.
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