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Gun safety

Old 05-04-2008, 09:42 AM
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Default Gun safety

I recently acquired my first gun, a Sig 226 .40. I got 2 permits to buy from the wonderful State of Nazis Jersey, so I'm now shopping for a second gun. So I was in the gun shop I bought the first gun from yesterday. An older gentlemen who seemed to really know his stuff was helping me. However he continually pointed different guns at me and other people in the shop after he verified they weren't loaded. It seemed like a questionable practice to me, but I figured I'm new to the whole gun thing and he's the expert. When he picked up a used gun from a showcase, didn't check if it was loaded, pointed it away from me and directly at my girlfriend who was only a few feet away and pulled the trigger, I decided it was time to leave. I didn't have to tell my girlfriend this, she was already on her way out the door and a little freaked out. My GF thinks I should just let it go, but I feel I really need to contact the owner or manager about this. If the gun had been loaded the GF would have been shot and possiblely dead.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: Gun safety

Rule #1...ALWAYS TREAT GUNS AS IF THEY LOADED ALL THE TIME!! no exceptions That is a very unsafe practice. Did u say anything to the guy??
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:12 AM
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Cracker said it... ALL WEAPONS ARE ALWAYS LOADED UNTIL YOU PHYSICALLY CHECK YOURSELF! Also, people need to learn how to pass a firearm to someone. My opinion, it is always opened, mag dropped, chambered, locked back, checked again and THEN handed to a person OPEN. A revolver, the cylinder out/opened.

Last night I was at a buddies house watching the b-ball game and he asked me to check a few guns out that his wife got from a death of a family member. As he handed then to me, he never checked to see if they were unloaded... I said "DON'T MOVE and I AM NOT KIDDING". He froze with a puzzled look on his face and said "WHAT?"... I said look where the barrel is pointed, and of course it was pointed in the direction of the family room with about 10 people in it. Keep in mind, he knows I know a thing or two about weapons and firearms and I asked him to lock the slide back and drop the mag while keeping it pointed in a safe direction. He did as he said "they are empty"... the mag dropped with about 5 rounds in it and there was a round chambered which dropped out when he opened the action. Keep in mind, he said "they were empty"...

Needless to say, he and his wife will be here in about a 1/2 hour and I am taking them to the range for a little handling, safety and education session today.

OP...I am a little puzzled about the statement above... "a permit from the state to ALLOW YOU to purchase a firearm (and only two)????" WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ABOUT?
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Gun safety

If he pointed a gun at you (muzzled you), then he does not know his stuff. He might be a regular at the store, and I would certainly mention it to someone there. He might try to place "expert" with someone else in the future.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:41 AM
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The guy is a worse than a moron. There is no excuse for:

"pointed it away from me and directly at my girlfriend who was only a few feet away and pulled the trigger"

Doing that could provoke a sudden and unpleasant response from many people.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Gun safety

Cracker - 5/4/2008 12:53 PM

Rule #1...ALWAYS TREAT GUNS AS IF THEY LOADED ALL THE TIME!! no exceptions That is a very unsafe practice. Did u say anything to the guy??

Rule #2 Do not ever point a gun at something you do not intend on killing, had it been me I may have been tempted to handle the gun and let HIM look down the barrel
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:28 AM
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^^^^^^^

Yeah, and as you're showing him the business end of the barrel, you should mumble the words, "Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk!".
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:09 PM
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Seacat FL - 5/4/2008 12:41 PM The guy is a worse than a moron. There is no excuse for: "pointed it away from me and directly at my girlfriend who was only a few feet away and pulled the trigger" Doing that could provoke a sudden and unpleasant response from many people.
I would definitely report this guy to his higher-ups in a very factual manner.

Totally unacceptable behaviour!!!!!

Someday, somebody's "luck" is going to run out.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:21 PM
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Being new to the whole gun thing, the real seriousness of this didn't really hit me until after we left. I'm going to give the shop a call tomorrow. I'm sure they have a tape running they can review.

2005 SeaCraft - 5/4/2008 1:12 PM OP...I am a little puzzled about the statement above... "a permit from the state to ALLOW YOU to purchase a firearm (and only two)????" WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ABOUT?
You see, here in Nazis Jersey you need an individual purchase permit for each pistol you intend to buy. And the permits are only good for 90 days. The state law says the municipality issuing the permit has 30 days to issue the permit or deny you. Unfortunately the reality is sometimes it can take a year to get a permit. So when I applied I applied for 2 permits. I'm not sure if their is a limit on the amount or not.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:30 PM
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All kidding aside, if the jerk pointed a gun at either of you, loaded or not, that in itself is a criminal offense. He could be in deep legal trouble and would most likely end up losing his pistol permit, etc. if reported.
You should immediately inform the shop owner of the details and let him handle it from there.
Jerks like that are very bad for his business, and bad for all gun owners as well as other law abiding citizens.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:34 PM
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Sea Craft... In order to purchase a handgun in New Jersey, you must apply for a "Permit to Purchase" one from your local Police Department. There is a cost involved along with being finger printed and background check. The "Permit" is good for 90 days. Each time you apply for a permit, you have to go thru the same process again. I live in that State for a number of years before retiring and moving to Florida.

The Detective that handled the permit operation was very anti-gun. I would apply for 3 permits at a time. He would wait until the last day to approve the permits. I finally got fed up with his mess and sent the State Senator an email about his delaying tactic. I did receive a reply and my next set of permits were approved in one week. The Detective was pissed.

Now a Permit to Carry is another subject. That has to be approved by a Superior Court Judge. In 1994, there was only 2076 permits issued in the State. What a State.........!!!!!
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:48 PM
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I'm guessing all the crooks, drug dealers, criminals, and illegals follow all the byzantine rules and gun related crime in NJ is ZERO. Must be a very nice State! Kind of like living in the Magic Kingdom. How's Mickey and Donald?

I've been in many gun shops and gun shows. I've never seen anyone point a firearm at anyone at any time. If a person (Kid or otherwise inexperienced person) even acted like they would, someone would call this to their attention. If I was the proprietor of a business where an employee pointed a weapon at anyone I'd be rightly concerned.
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Old 05-04-2008, 01:48 PM
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That guy is a negligent discharge (tragic event) waiting to happen. He's an idiot. Definately call the store owner.....or go see him in person.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:07 PM
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I can't disagree with all of the above but here's a scenario I would like some feedback on. My son was in Boy Scouts and was about 12 years old. Another scout father was a NC State Trooper. My son was talking about eye dominance. He was sure that he was right handed and left eye dominant. The trooper drew his weapon, unloaded it, checked the chamber and the mag well, checked the chamber and mag well again, dropped the slide, and then dropped the hammer. He told my son, "Now that we are sure that this weapon is unloaded, I want you to point it at my face and I will tell you whether you are right or left eye dominant".

I had instilled in my son that you NEVER point a gun at anybody for ANY reason. The trooper still insisted that they both knew for a fact that the weapon wasn't loaded and, under controlled conditions like they had, it was OK for him to point it at him to check eye dominance.

I know that there are several other ways to check eye dominance but how do y'all fell about that particular scenario?
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:26 PM
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I think I would have been pretty irate. A quick exit does not fix the situation either. Let him go to a gun show and pull some stunt like that and he'll probably have someone accidentally stun gun him!
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:30 PM
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There are ALOT EASIER/SAFER ways to find out. I just went through this with a friend at the range today.

put your hands together at arms length with your palms facing a target and form a small opening where your thumbs cross eachother. Keeping BOTH EYES open, SLOWLY pull your arms in while keeping both eyes on the target you see through the opening and as you pull the opening all the way into your face, it will be alined on the stronger/dominate eye. NO FIREARMS NEEDED!

(this was meant for SHAG)
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:59 PM
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Ding ding Ding ding Ding ding!

SeaCraft has a correct answer. (One of a number of ways to test eye dominance without staring down a barrell)

At any rate, a State Trooper, or Weapons Instructor, educating the boy scouts, is much different than someone at a counter selling guns.

I remember (way back) when taking hunter safety being told to check the patency of your barrell if you dropped your shotgun in the field. (Discharging a Shotgun with the barrell plugged with dirt can cause major harm) The point is, there are correct ways to examine your piece, and incorrect ways. That's what weapons instructors (Military/Law Enforcement/Gun range owners) do as their stock in trade.

The real point of this thread is regarding the knucklehead that points a firearm (loaded/Unloaded) at another person is mishandling the weapon in a dangerous way. Secondly NJ Suxx.
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Old 05-04-2008, 03:49 PM
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Pointing a gun at someone is a threat with bodily harm and against the law not to mention f'ing stupid. And actually pulling the trigger!!!?? That guy needs to be shut down, license revoked, carry permit revoked and permanently banned from owning a firearm.
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:03 PM
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I have a close friend who owned a pawn shop for many years. From time to time some idiot would bring a loaded gun in to pawn, and on one occasion an employee almost got shot because of it.

The rule was drilled into me early and should be for every shooter: Always check the weapon, and even when you know it is unloaded, always keep it pointed in a safe direction. Just make it a habit- It can save your life, or someone elses. If you hand someone a weapon, demonstrate to them that it is empty before you hand it over. It always bothers me to see someone handling a gun carelessly, even if I know it is unloaded.

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Old 05-04-2008, 11:55 PM
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I would have done something. I have been around guns all my life. I have been in the Army. I am very proficient with guns. I have never pointed a gun at anyone or an animal I wasn't hunting. I don't know if it is illegal to point an empty gun at someone, but it would have scared the hell out of me!
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