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Take on Roger Clemens ??

Old 01-08-2008, 03:24 AM
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Default Take on Roger Clemens ??

I know this is being run into the ground but has anyone kept up with the saga on Roger Clemens alleged steroid use??

I just saw a taped conversation on Sportscenter where Clemens was on the phone with the trainer and the trainer never stated that Clemens was injected with steroids .


I really hope the Rocket is telling the truth and I believe he is but I will say this again , steroids were not banned by MLB until last year or so and if they did use them
it was not against the rules.

Looks to me like a lot of guys used them to heal quicker more than anything
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

I've been following it off & on.

If a doctor prescribed hormone replacement therapy, which is common today with middle aged men, he did nothing wrong. Some may say it was immoral, but I would guess that the Mitchell report only was a drop in the bucket compared to how many actually used it and you will never know for sure. IMO, the media cares much more than the fans. As Canseco says, if they used, it would help them not get hurt, recover faster and knock more homers out of the park - all good business decisions for them while not breaking MLB rules.

If he did what he says, B12 and localized pain killers, then IMO, it drops credibility in the Mitchell report and proves it was a huge was of time & money.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

I try to separate the two issues - whether it was a crime to use them when he did, and whether he actually used them.

On the first point, it is really hypocritical of the league to express outrage about players using them now, since they knew it was widespread at the time, and the league reaped the benefits almost as much as the players. However, I find the idea of someone that has already made $50 million doing this to get an even greater advantage over guys who are clean, and ratchet his compensation up even higher, really distasteful. I also think it sets a terrible example for kids who will inevitably follow in their footsteps to the detriment of their health, and in some cases their mind.

On the second point, the whole phone conversation was a calculated PR campaign. The only thing I am not sure of is whether the trainer was in on it or not - I tend to think not, but with all the money Clemens has, I wouldn't put it past him to make a deal with him. As to whether Clemens did steroids, it is not even debatable - he is guilty. Only an ardent fan or a blood relative would say otherwise.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:42 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

He said this, he did that, I'm innocent crap. The only people who believe Clemens is his small "support" group and fan base. Everyone's going to have an opinion about him. I like Curt Schilling's take on the subject.


ahh who cares, the guy has more money than the banker of monopoly...why should he care about his public image?
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

TrollnHeel - 1/8/2008 8:42 AM

He said this, he did that, I'm innocent crap. The only people who believe Clemens is his small "support" group and fan base. Everyone's going to have an opinion about him. I like Curt Schilling's take on the subject.


ahh who cares, the guy has more money than the banker of monopoly...why should he care about his public image?
Seems he feels that his truthfulness, honor and integrity have been brought into question, and most likely that's exactly why he's so fervently defending himself against the allegations.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

I don't think Roger is telling the truth, and that is a view I suspect is shared by many.

People's view of whether the use of steroids is a good thing, or a bad thing will probably not depend on whether MLB had a rule on the books prohibiting them, rather it will be based on their view of what constitutes fair play. Some will say steroid use is not fair, while others will think that it was fair because many did use while baseball looked the other way.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

joenew61 - 1/8/2008 3:51 AM
As to whether Clemens did steroids, it is not even debatable - he is guilty.
Guilty of what? Please explain. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I do not see this as big of an issue on his part as the media is playing it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

bletort - 1/8/2008 10:01 AM

joenew61 - 1/8/2008 3:51 AM
As to whether Clemens did steroids, it is not even debatable - he is guilty.
Guilty of what? Please explain. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I do not see this as big of an issue on his part as the media is playing it.
On one hand, he is guilty of lying about having used them. That's what did Nixon in and almost did Clinton in, not the initial indiscretion.

As to his usage, guilt may not be the right word to characterize his usage over his entire career. I don't know what the official policy was in the late 90s and early 00's, but at some point after they were made "illegal", he likely continued to take them. Not enough evidence on this latter point to skewer him, but the reasonable man would put the odds pretty high that he did.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: Take on Roger Clemens ??

The lack of evidence based on "he said, she said" would be the factor to make it debatable. How can he be lying if it hasn't been proved that he is used? Also, if memory serves me correctly, the accusations in the report were during a time when MLB didn't have them banned, makes it a mute point IMO.

The book "Juiced" by Canseco was very entertaining. If interested in this topic, I would recommend to read it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

Thye both skirted the issues (both questions and answers) in that interview. I changed my mind - I now think he did use steroids. The interview was telling for what wasn'r said or asked. The trainer kept asking what you want me to do and clemens never asked him to outright deny the charges. Clemens also never outright denied using steroids or even used the word. I think Clemens had a lawyer present.

I would have said - Hey I didnt use the drugs - you know that, you lied, just come out and admit it. He never said that.
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

He and bonds must have been separated at birth. Both look bloated and are retaining water and both likely used steroids, which is not the bigger issue at hand...lying about it, especially in front of congress is the bigger issue at hand.

What I want to know is what on earth is MLB hoping to get out of this report? What good does it do MLB and the rest of world to find out something everyone already knew about and then publicize it for the entire world to debate? They are going to run out of bullets after shooting themselves in the foot...
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

I think it's a witch hunt. If known supplements were available and NOT AGAINST THE RULES, then why point fingers at the players who said WOW, I feel better, stronger, faster? Old Bud Selig doesn't what history to show "THE STEROID ERA" under his watch, so he is spending the money to sacrifice the game's best players over this time period....the same time period he used the "Long Ball" to bring people to stadiums.

It's BS...all BS.

and food for thought: When did taking something that makes your connective tissues healthier & stronger become illegal? it doesn't impair your judgement, make you high, give you a buzz... think about it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: Take on Roger Clemens ??

Just put an asterisk next to his name........
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

if he did use b-12 and lidocane, i would ask where he shot it up
if in the butt he is a liar, but in his pitching arm then he might no be

last time i checked you ate vitamins, but who knows maybe one day we will all will be shooting up vitamins
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

I don't know if he is lying; I woudn't bet either way. I do find it a joke that our government officials are wasting time on this issue, and not on corruption (in my state for example), fixing social security, working on the deficits (trade and budget), etc.



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Old 01-08-2008, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

GOVERNMENT: "You mean to tell us that there are things that make you feel better, recover from injury/stress faster and help combat the other effects of aging and WE DON'T CONTROL IT????? We need to get on top of this....how dare anyone taking anything that makes them more productive!!!"
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

I am not an athlete and occasionally will give myself a b-12 injection. You do take it on your backside. There is a noticeable difference for several days after the shot. You feel sharper mentally and physically. As far as the lidocane, if you are supposedly injecting directly into the joint of you back like he said, would you not want a doctor to be doing that type of stuff? Clemens' lawyer, Rusty Hardin, was listening in on the phone conversation. I would not doubt if McNamee's lawyers were on the other end. I think they were both trying to get the other to incriminate themself.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

see below

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Old 01-08-2008, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

joenew61 - 1/8/2008 10:21 AM

bletort - 1/8/2008 10:01 AM

joenew61 - 1/8/2008 3:51 AM
As to whether Clemens did steroids, it is not even debatable - he is guilty.
Guilty of what? Please explain. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I do not see this as big of an issue on his part as the media is playing it.
On one hand, he is guilty of lying about having used them. That's what did Nixon in and almost did Clinton in, not the initial indiscretion.

As to his usage, guilt may not be the right word to characterize his usage over his entire career. I don't know what the official policy was in the late 90s and early 00's, but at some point after they were made "illegal", he likely continued to take them. Not enough evidence on this latter point to skewer him, but the reasonable man would put the odds pretty high that he did.

How do you know he used them? Is it because some person facing jail time said he did? And, why would the reasonable person lay high odds that he used them after they were banned? There is zero evidence beyond the words of a felon.


I believe I am reasonable. I however, continue to favor the "old school" justice system. The one that gives us the right of "innocent until proven guilty." It's Clemen's word against Mc's. In a court of law, I would hope a bit more evidence would be needed.
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Old 01-08-2008, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Take on Roger Clemens ??

What these sports players do has no impact on my life. Why does this sort of crap have to be the focus of tv?
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