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sub-panel wiring question

Old 11-04-2007, 12:01 PM
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Default sub-panel wiring question

I ran a dedicated circuit for a new whirlpool tub to the sub panel. It's a 110v standard plug and I used a GCFI receptacle. In the sub panel I connected the ground wire to the ground bus but there is no neutral bus to connect to. The black (hot) wire will go to the breaker so where do I connect the white wire (neutral)? I am right that black=hot? or is white hot?
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

You are correct, black is hot and white neutral...
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

On a sub panel you must wire/equip the panel with 4 wires. 2 hots, 1 neutral, and 1 ground.

Most panels accept a second ground bar as an option. I don't see that option in your photo however.

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Old 11-04-2007, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

Mist-rest is correct, on a sub panel you have to float the neutral, It requires 4 wires,
2 hots a neutral and ground. From your picture, all you have to do is, remove flat metal strip you see half way down the neutral bar. Its made to be taken out if needed,
as you can see. then add a ground bar that does make direct contact with the panel, as your neutral bar is doing now. Simple, add ground wire, remove strap from neutral bar, screw ground bar right to panel, must make direct contact with panel with out any plastic, or anything that keeps it from touching the metal panel. good luck
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

ok, looked at your picture again, you all ready have a ground wire run, just remove
metal strap on neutral, add ground bar and move all ground wires to the new ground bar. Neutrals will stay where they are now, piece of cake!
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

ok read your post again, breakers for hot tubs have a neutral wire on them that must go to the neutral bar. and the white wire to your tub goes to the breaker. there is a screw on the breaker for the neutral. Just put the neutral under screw and you are good to go. It'ts any easy job, hire someone.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

all right, it's hard to trace wires and where they are going from a picture. if your power is coming in on the bottom left, there is no ground. how ever the large wire in the top has a ground. You should have an electrician friend look it over, you need a four wire for 220 tub and i can see a new yellow three wire. Doesen't cost that much, and you want have to worry about inspectors and resale.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

NEW codes require a seperate nuetral in a sub-panel. Connect the white (nuetral) wire from your 110v gfci outlet to the ground bus.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

csaltbay - 11/4/2007 2:03 PM

Mist-rest is correct, on a sub panel you have to float the neutral, It requires 4 wires,
2 hots a neutral and ground. From your picture, all you have to do is, remove flat metal strip you see half way down the neutral bar. Its made to be taken out if needed,
as you can see. then add a ground bar that does make direct contact with the panel, as your neutral bar is doing now. Simple, add ground wire, remove strap from neutral bar, screw ground bar right to panel, must make direct contact with panel with out any plastic, or anything that keeps it from touching the metal panel. good luck
This is correct info.





The cable you have run for the GFI receptacle will connect as follows:

Black - To a new circuit breaker

White - To the existing neutral bar

Bare - To a new ground bar

The ground bar will need to be connected to suitably-sized ground wire from the Main Panel


The cable/conduit coming in the top of the sub-panel looks odd. It appears to have 2 circuits - 1 fed from the main panel & the other fed from the sub-panel


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Old 11-04-2007, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

And your missing your plastic bushings on the offset connecting the two panels.

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Old 11-04-2007, 04:58 PM
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wow, great eye welder, a connector over three quarter inch, or has a wire of # 8 or larger must have a plastic bushing!!
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

Elusive - 11/4/2007 3:50 PM

csaltbay - 11/4/2007 2:03 PM

Mist-rest is correct, on a sub panel you have to float the neutral, It requires 4 wires,
2 hots a neutral and ground. From your picture, all you have to do is, remove flat metal strip you see half way down the neutral bar. Its made to be taken out if needed,
as you can see. then add a ground bar that does make direct contact with the panel, as your neutral bar is doing now. Simple, add ground wire, remove strap from neutral bar, screw ground bar right to panel, must make direct contact with panel with out any plastic, or anything that keeps it from touching the metal panel. good luck
This is correct info.





The cable you have run for the GFI receptacle will connect as follows:

Black - To a new circuit breaker

White - To the existing neutral bar

Bare - To a new ground bar

The ground bar will need to be connected to suitably-sized ground wire from the Main Panel


The cable/conduit coming in the top of the sub-panel looks odd. It appears to have 2 circuits - 1 fed from the main panel & the other fed from the sub-panel


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Old 11-04-2007, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

It's all about safety, Thats it! Spas now require a non grounded material to enter from. Like wood or the like. Not trying to be a smart ass, just know some codes.
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

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Old 11-05-2007, 05:16 AM
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Default RE: sub-panel wiring question

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Old 11-05-2007, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

OK, thanks for the responses. Let me clarify a little. It's not a "hot tub", it is a whirlpool bath tub...no heat, just jets, all self-contained. It has a regular 110v motor and a 110v male 3-prong plug. I mounted a 110v gcfi receptacle and thought it would be best to dedicate it exclusively for this tub, which is why I ran right to the sub-panel.

I DID NOT mount or wire the sub-panel, it was existing in the house. Are you guys saying that it is not to code?

I don't know why the previous electrician has brown/gray/green wires but they come in from my C/A unit that is outside. I brought in the yellow feed on the top right which has black/white and copper ground, it is not connected right now except I did conmnect the ground in the beginning when I thought I knew what I was doing.

Is the neutral the same as ground? Can someone specify exactly what I need to do? thanks.

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Old 11-05-2007, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

NJFISH - 11/5/2007 6:09 AM

Are you guys saying that it is not to code?
Yes, it has multiple problems

Is the neutral the same as ground?
No. That is why they must be separated in the sub-panel

Can someone specify exactly what I need to do?
Do yourself a favor. Call a licensed electrician to correct the problems. It will not be expensive to correct.

If your budget allows, you may consider upgrading the main panel & eliminating the sub-panel. The sub-panel is poor quality and the main may be as well



[/QUOTE]
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

That's what I thought. Better safe than sorry. Thanks for all the replies.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

NO! The panel is not legal.

There is an add'l ground/neutral bar option available for most panels. You bolt them in and your off. Some panels come that way right from the factory. My own 200 amp sub in the garage was purchased that way. All the subs (9 of them) here at the Mass property were ordered as subs from the supply house. Again, you can get the bar after the fact.

Hot #1 bolts to the buss bar

Hot # 2 bolts to the right buss bar

Neutral bolts to the neutral bus bar

ground/bare bolts to the ground buss bar.

I won't get into the colors but you have some strange ones in there.
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: sub-panel wiring question

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