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Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

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Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Old 10-20-2007, 03:48 AM
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Default Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

On my bay front deck I've finally decided to swap out the 2x2 spindle style railing for glass. I plan on leaving the spindles on the sides of the deck and only doing the front. The curent set up has 4x4 posts with 42"h x 54" wide 'panels', four of them for a shade over 17'. I want to keep the 4x4's.... so I plan to use 'wall brackets' to attach them to the 4x4's
Here's the bracket:


With these railings:


This stuff is available from HD...... I haven't seen a way to support the glass I like better, but I haven't seen it all and appreciate suggestions before I go forward. So if you know or like a different method a link would be appreciated.

You can see in this pict the four panels I want to replace with glass.. It's really killing me to break from the traditional look I worked so hard to preserve in this resurrection of a shore cottage.... Oh well, I look from the inside out 99% of the time and the spindles block my view!



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Old 10-20-2007, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Afish, never seen it done with just 2x4s and glass, might won't to look around and see what's done elsewhere. IMO you will need something stronger than 2x4s to encase the glass. My experience with glass is very very limited though. A bull in a china shop comes to mind.
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Old 10-20-2007, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Matty, commercial storefront glazing is very similar. The glass sits on those rubber blocks, and is held in place with rubber bead. Be sure to have weep holes in the bottom track. The glass must ve tempered, like shower enclosures. This is done after the glass is cut to size. We've gotta few docks here with glass. Look great. However, how about the fact they cut out the breeze?
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Old 10-20-2007, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Bugs, where'd ya get the 2x4's inference?
Bill, there's a few places around here with it, they say they haven't noticed it being any hotter... My biggest fear has been the 70mph winds we get here a couple times a year....

Just stopped in Lowes and looked at what they offer.. Not glass, acrylic.. Under $100 per 6' section is pretty attractive, but I want to touch and feel it first.... The glass ones in my 1st post are 1/4", in my overkill mind that sounds flimsy... More research is in order...


This is the Lowes stuff:


Wadda you guys think?
http://www.severeweatherrail.com/newport.htm
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

My mother has about 50 feet of glass for her deck. Looks nice but I don't have to clean it.

Her posts are 4X4 with a white full round cap over the glass panels.

I fully understand removing them. I had the same problem on our first house on the water. Made me feel like I was in a jail cell. I was only at 30" so I removed them and replaced them with a full width run of steps. Worked out great.
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Old 10-20-2007, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

One of the glass docks is at Sailfish Point, faces the inlet. Went thru our hurricanes ok. I don't know the construction details on it, tho.
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Old 10-20-2007, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Afish,

You may also want ot consider laminating the tempered glass as well. In addition, you should also know about nickel sulfide inclusions which cause spontaneous glass breakage. I speak from experience as I was invloved with a project which had the awesome stairway you see below. We called it the suicide stair and it is located in the Headquarters foor Discovery Communications (Discovery Channel)in Silver Spring, MD.

See the next to the top section? During their Grand Opening Gala back 2003, there was a bunch of folks on the first floor conversing with the CEO John Hendricks. One of whom was Senator John McCain. Anyway a panel simply exploded into large chunks and fell just after alll but 3 people had left that area!

The cause? Nickel Sulfide Inclusions which occur during the manufacturing process of tempered glass. Basically a microscopic particle of nickel gets embedded into the glass and at some point, it could be days, it could be years, it heats up, expands just a tiny bit, and causes the tempered glass to explode. It ain't pretty.

You might also want to consider acrylic. The down side to acrylic that I have seen is some brands tend to "yellow" or fog.

[img]../photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=30701[/img]
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Old 10-20-2007, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

I'd be worried about the maintainance issue (cleaning) also. Have you considered 1/8" stainless cable? 4" on center, they visually dissapear. Neither works with the classic look but the cable is maintainance free.
just my 2¢
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Old 10-20-2007, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Just1more - 10/20/2007 12:25 PM
You might also want to consider acrylic. The down side to acrylic that I have seen is some brands tend to "yellow" or fog.
I think I like the acrylic... I am going to order a section from Lowes, since they don't stock it in the stores. Then I can touch/feel/look at it and make a decision.. Looks like they use a product from CYRO Industires 'Acrylite' Ever heard of their product? My concern was the salt (and the dirt sticking to it) scratching it.... And of course the fact that it appears to only be about 1/4" thick (they suggest cutting it by taking four passes 1/16" deep)
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Old 10-20-2007, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Afishinado - 10/20/2007 1:37 PM
Just1more - 10/20/2007 12:25 PM You might also want to consider acrylic. The down side to acrylic that I have seen is some brands tend to "yellow" or fog.
I think I like the acrylic... I am going to order a section from Lowes, since they don't stock it in the stores. Then I can touch/feel/look at it and make a decision.. Looks like they use a product from CYRO Industires 'Acrylite' Ever heard of their product? My concern was the salt (and the dirt sticking to it) scratching it.... And of course the fact that it appears to only be about 1/4" thick (they suggest cutting it by taking four passes 1/16" deep)
Afish,

The Acrylite is one of the brands that I saw with the yellowing effect. Check with some of your local Commercial suppliers.
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Old 10-20-2007, 02:06 PM
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There's always Lexan..and it's bulletproof, which is necessary in New Jersey.................
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Old 10-20-2007, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

I second the ss cable. Maintainance free but watch out for small children. They like to climb the horizontal cables.
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Old 10-20-2007, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

do not use any type of plastic - go with glass.


The spontaneous breakage discussed is very very rare and will decrease with as you go thicker.

Depending on the budget, I would go with 1/2" tempered but 3/8" or even 1/4" would work (I would not personally use anything less than 3/8") If you use 1/2" you will need to get the edge completely finished rather than "seamed" so you might try to design a semi framless system.

Are you doing yourself? Go to a couple glass shops and talk to the oldest most cranky looking guy in the shop and tell him what you are doing and you are a cheap bastard (even if you're not) - they will steer you right. There are several different types of commercial storefront components that would work, or to maintain a bit of the traditional cottage look you can just use 2x4 with quarter round for your stops to hold in the galss. Just leave some gaps on all sides for swelling/shrinkage. Again - talk to the glass guys.

The Lowes sytem would work for the uniform and traditional look of the mounting system - use the plastic panels for a year or two until it looks like crap and then replace with glass if the structure will support the weight. Plastic will scratch, yellow and fog no matter what anyone tells you. Go with the glass and treat like you would your boat glass.


There is a glass guy on this board (glassman?) - I'm sure he has more current info than me - I've been out of the business for 7 or so years.

good luck



j


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Old 10-21-2007, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

redneck joe - 10/20/2007 3:35 PM The spontaneous breakage discussed is very very rare and will decrease with as you go thicker.
Negative. It can happen to any thickness glass that is tempered. The glass on the Suicide Stair is 1" thick. When annealed glass is tempered, it is heated and rolled over stainless steel rollers. The nickel particle comes from the stainless steel roller. The statement that it is "rare" is certainly relative to the volume of tempered glass that is available and the location as to which it is installed. For example, ifa faulty piece is placed on the north side of a structure, it will most likely never break. If it is placed on the south side of a structure, it is gone!
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Just1more-
Afish,
The Acrylite is one of the brands that I saw with the yellowing effect.
Thanks for the heads up, that'd pizz me off...

I did a lot of on-line research (seeing whats out there) today, this is what I think I'm going to go with.
Anyone seen this before? What did you think?

http://www.certainteed.com/CertainTe...odENglRail.htm


The 'spindles' are 3/8" x 4" tempered glass with 3" spacing....

1more- This wall/rail faces NW.... Closest tree to break the wind is about 4 miles across the bay, kinda like the idea that it isn't solid for that reason as well......
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Afishinado - 10/22/2007 5:22 PM
Just1more- Afish, The Acrylite is one of the brands that I saw with the yellowing effect.
Thanks for the heads up, that'd pizz me off... I did a lot of on-line research (seeing whats out there) today, this is what I think I'm going to go with. Anyone seen this before? What did you think? http://www.certainteed.com/CertainTe...odENglRail.htm The 'spindles' are 3/8" x 4" tempered glass with 3" spacing.... 1more- This wall/rail faces NW.... Closest tree to break the wind is about 4 miles across the bay, kinda like the idea that it isn't solid for that reason as well......
Can't say much about the Certainteed. Never used it. I have installed quite a bit of this though.............. http://www.deckorators.com/Photos.asp?ProductType=Glass

Haven't had any issues thus far. They look the same but I think the Certainteed probably comes with the rail and post covers.The Deckorator system offers post covers, but I doubt you're going for that look.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

I've done this before at a previous house.
Put two glass panels between each post leaving three equal openings between the glass to let wind through.
Had local glass shop cut tempered glass, put c shaped rubber channel on the top and bottom of the glass.
The glass was held in with treated 2x4's ripped down to 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" basically creating a wood c-channel at the top and bottom. Put weep holes in the base section for drainage.
Thought cleaning was going to be an issue but it never was.
Been their about 7 years now without any problems.
Cost was about 1/4 the mfg. systems.
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Thought I'd give ya a follow up

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Old 06-10-2008, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Looks good! Is that the Certainteed product?

Do it yourself, or did you have a contractor do it?

Nice job!
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Builder guys- Glass railing suggestions/questions

Every car window except the windshield is tempered and unless you hit the edge with a sharp object it is very hard to break, and they are only 1/4" thick
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