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LCD tv's again

Old 10-06-2007, 05:41 PM
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Default LCD tv's again

My 25 year old Sony 27" tv just died. Looked at all the posts, on LCD tv's.
Money is tight right now(spent tooo much on traveling and fishing), and I'm not a heavy tv watcher,
QUESTION? Is it worth the extra bucks for a 1080 screen, of about 42 inchs, or could I be happy with a 720 pix screen? Remember I really do not watch much TV so pic quality is SO SO.

I was told by a sales person that 720 would be gone soon, which translates to the down pricing of the 1080 screens but for right now they are about $500 more for a Name brand like Sony, Samsung, or Sharp.

Opinnions appreciated.
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:21 PM
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Saw this in my daily Tigerdirect email this morning. Thinking about one for the bedroom. Might be what you are looking for. Can't go wrong at 500 bucks for a 42" HD. It is refurbished though.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...CODE=WEM1472SS
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:25 PM
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Default RE: LCD tv's again

I would get a 42" 720p Panasonic plasma. Most bang for the buck. 1080p is not that important in that size set unless you are sitting 2' away and there is no broadcast, cable or satellite 1080p programming now and there won't be for many years to come. ABC, ESPN & Fox all broadcast in 720p exclusively.

The major value now for a 1080p set in that size would be for gaming, computer monitor use or with a Blue Ray or HD DVD player.

Here are are a couple of good links with more video information than you can imagine:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=167
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...prune=30&f=166
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: LCD tv's again

Most HD stations are broadcast in 720p. If you don't have a bluray or a HD dvd player, the 720p LCD should be fine.
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Old 10-06-2007, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: LCD tv's again

Seacat,

Exactly how do you *know* that there won't be any 1080p broadcast for "years to come" so timeframe is that? What if they start within the next year?

So not only are you steering people to plasma (or trying hard I should say) but now you are trying to convince them that it's not worth opting for 1080p?



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Old 10-06-2007, 08:36 PM
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StingerII - 10/6/2007 8:02 PM

Seacat,

Exactly how do you *know* that there won't be any 1080p broadcast for "years to come" so timeframe is that? What if they start within the next year?

So not only are you steering people to plasma (or trying hard I should say) but now you are trying to convince them that it's not worth opting for 1080p?
1080p is not even recognized as an ATSC broadcast standard now. It took 20 years to get the HD standards we have today of 720p and 1080i. 1080p requires more than twice the bandwidth of the existing 720p/1080i standards and it would cost a phenomenal amount of money to provide that broadcast/satellite/cable bandwidth. Broadcasters have spent billions to provide current HDTV and many people are still complaining about ending SD broadcasts in 2009.

Hers is a quote for you:

"Will HDTV eventually be broadcast in 1080p? While some television network executives have expressed an interest in pursuing 1080p, there are many issues that have to be addressed before it becomes feasible. Some of the major issues include the increased bandwidth required to broadcast 1080p, the required upgrade of television cameras and other broadcast equipment, and the limited benefit to existing 720p/1080i HDTV owners who would not be able to see the increased resolution. Because of these and other reasons, it will be 5-10 years before 1080p can even be considered and there is a chance that 720p/1080i will be the major broadcast standard for decades. "
http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/hdtv_reference_guide.htm

I recomend plama panels because from 42" up plasma provides the sharpest brightest images with the best contrast and black levels. Only real drawback is that they are more expensive than the DLP type types.
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Old 10-06-2007, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: LCD tv's again

So far everything I get and I just checked about an hour ago is 1080i. I just checked and TBS is running baseball in 1080i. I can see wanted to save some money and going 720, however you are not going to get a progressive picture from a downsampled 1080i picture. And if you think 1280×720 looks as good as 1920x1080 you need glasses.
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:24 AM
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GravyBoat - 10/6/2007 9:52 PM

So far everything I get and I just checked about an hour ago is 1080i. I just checked and TBS is running baseball in 1080i. I can see wanted to save some money and going 720, however you are not going to get a progressive picture from a downsampled 1080i picture. And if you think 1280×720 looks as good as 1920x1080 you need glasses.
1280 x 720 x 60 fps is better than 1920 x 780 x 30 fps especially for sports.
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:37 AM
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Default Re: LCD tv's again

I researched the $hit out of this and looked at many TV's, over and over again. I elected to get the 720p. You will still be blown away at the image quality. IMHO, the difference simply isn't worth the price differential. In fact, I couldn't see any difference.
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Old 10-07-2007, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: LCD tv's again

I thought I could see some difference in pic quality, but the hard sale side of the stores, got into the way of actual true evaluation of the pic by the customer(me), so the reason for the post. Any way thank for the input, for spending $1800 or saving $500 to 800 or so, when not really necessary.
I will probably buy one of the big S named one anyway, I did see, when they were not hard selling me some difference in them over the jump in the market types.
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Old 10-07-2007, 07:33 PM
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John_Madison CT - 10/7/2007 6:37 AM

I researched the $hit out of this and looked at many TV's, over and over again. I elected to get the 720p. You will still be blown away at the image quality. IMHO, the difference simply isn't worth the price differential. In fact, I couldn't see any difference.
yeah 720 is no slouch at all. However, I hook my laptop up to the hdmi port (dvi->hdmi) and it is crystal clear from 10 feet away at 1920x1080. I am going to build a gaming PC for it and need the res for the new games.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:39 AM
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720p looks really good if it's all you've ever seen. Get in front of a 1080i/1080p set and you'll be able to pick up the differences. Question is will it be worth it to you?

People often debate 720 vs 1080 but I rarely hear people discuss the source of what offers the best picture. Your cable company is compressing the crap out of the signal and this, imho, has more of a visual impact on the pq. Get an OTA antenna and you'll understand what I am talking about.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:44 AM
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Seacat FL - 10/7/2007 12:24 AM

GravyBoat - 10/6/2007 9:52 PM

So far everything I get and I just checked about an hour ago is 1080i. I just checked and TBS is running baseball in 1080i. I can see wanted to save some money and going 720, however you are not going to get a progressive picture from a downsampled 1080i picture. And if you think 1280×720 looks as good as 1920x1080 you need glasses.
1280 x 720 x 60 fps is better than 1920 x 780 x 30 fps especially for sports.
I get that, however every sporting event I watched this weekend was in 1080i. Nothing was in 720p. You can't downgrade the resolution of an interlaced broadcast to get a progressive framerate. Therefore you will only get 128x720 at 30 fps or 720i. Nothing on cox so far that I have seen has been 720p and besides movies look better in 1080i then 720p.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:45 AM
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FireFly - 10/8/2007 11:39 AM

720p looks really good if it's all you've ever seen. Get in front of a 1080i/1080p set and you'll be able to pick up the differences. Question is will it be worth it to you?

People often debate 720 vs 1080 but I rarely hear people discuss the source of what offers the best picture. Your cable company is compressing the crap out of the signal and this, imho, has more of a visual impact on the pq. Get an OTA antenna and you'll understand what I am talking about.
Yeahm I gotta hook up my OTA antenna to my new TV. Cox compresses the crap out of mostly everything.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:38 PM
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We recently purchased a Sony 42" (or maybe it's even a 46") flat screen, 1080p LCD. It's an Aquos (or something like that). It's nice, but I'm not blown away by the picture. Sometimes it has this flat look to the picture that's hard for me to describe except it almost looks like a paint-by-numbers painting. I know my description sounds odd, but the appearance is strange. I only notice it when I'm close. I might have it hooked up wrong. There's some sort of new connection they're using these days that I've never heard of before. I just have a coax cable coming out of the direct tv box into the tv. I don't really get to watch it much though. We needed something bigger and just happened to get a really good deal on it (Wife had some corporate AM-EX points to use), that's why we bought it. Got it from Cosco.

If I were you, I'd save the $500 and go with the 720.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:43 PM
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Brad1 - 10/8/2007 12:38 PM

We recently purchased a Sony 42" (or maybe it's even a 46") flat screen, 1080p LCD. It's an Aquos (or something like that). It's nice, but I'm not blown away by the picture. Sometimes it has this flat look to the picture that's hard for me to describe except it almost looks like a paint-by-numbers painting. I know my description sounds odd, but the appearance is strange. I only notice it when I'm close. I might have it hooked up wrong. There's some sort of new connection they're using these days that I've never heard of before. I just have a coax cable coming out of the direct tv box into the tv. I don't really get to watch it much though. We needed something bigger and just happened to get a really good deal on it (Wife had some corporate AM-EX points to use), that's why we bought it. Got it from Cosco.

If I were you, I'd save the $500 and go with the 720.
If you are just running Coax from the Direct TV box and not the Component or HDMI then you are watching 480i/480p at best. Also, chances are that you are not viewing the picture in "Native" mode so you are streching a 4:3 picture into a 16:9 picture and everyone looks short and fat.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:01 PM
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I know most people here know this but for the sake of people who don't know what 1080,720, and 480 means here is an example:

Here is a picture in a normal 4:3 480 TV:


Same Picture on a 16:9 720 TV:


Same Picture on a 16:9 1080 TV:


This has nothing to do with the 1080i and 720p Debate, only resolution.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:08 PM
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I viewed that on my crt monitor 1024 x 768 so your comparison is meaningless to me as it is to anybody else viewing this on a typical computer monitor.

Your pictuires imply that a 1920 x 1080 image would be larger when viewed on an HD panel. That is false . They will be exactly the same size assuming the panels are the same size.

What is your point?
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:10 PM
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Seacat FL - 10/9/2007 2:08 AM

I viewed that on my crt monitor 1024 x 768 so your comparison is meaningless to me as it is to anybody else viewing this on a typical computer monitor.

Your pictuires imply that a 1920 x 1080 image would be larger when viewed on an HD panel. That is false . They will be exactly the same size assuming the panels are the same size.

What is your point?

I think his point was nothing to do with image size and everything to do with pixel content, i.e. the 1080 pixels has more information and thus the potential for the better image.


Not yet mentioned in this thread is how scaling works for making a movie that was made on film at 24 frames/sec show up on an electronic display that is pumping out 30 full frames a second. Every 2 frames of the movie must occupy 3 frames on the display. How that is handled can also have a lot to do with the quality of the image. And it gets complicated when considering 3 frames of the display can be 3 full frames (progressive) of 6 half frames (interlaced).



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Old 10-08-2007, 02:38 PM
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Eyeball - 10/8/2007 2:10 PM

Seacat FL - 10/9/2007 2:08 AM

I viewed that on my crt monitor 1024 x 768 so your comparison is meaningless to me as it is to anybody else viewing this on a typical computer monitor.

Your pictuires imply that a 1920 x 1080 image would be larger when viewed on an HD panel. That is false . They will be exactly the same size assuming the panels are the same size.

What is your point?

I think his point was nothing to do with image size and everything to do with pixel content, i.e. the 1080 pixels has more information and thus the potential for the better image.


Not yet mentioned in this thread is how scaling works for making a movie that was made on film at 24 frames/sec show up on an electronic display that is pumping out 30 full frames a second. Every 2 frames of the movie must occupy 3 frames on the display. How that is handled can also have a lot to do with the quality of the image. And it gets complicated when considering 3 frames of the display can be 3 full frames (progressive) of 6 half frames (interlaced).


Its not meaningless to someone who views the images on a monitor with less resolution. If you look at the 1080 and the 720 picture you will see alot more detail in the 1080 then the 720. The screen doesn't get magically bigger however the screen will display more information.
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