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Old 07-11-2007, 02:12 AM
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I watched the last ten minutes of Tour de France last night - 3rd leg.........Can anyone explain to me why the four guys in the lead allowed the pack to catch up and why did the pack allow the guy in the yellow shirt to win the race?????? I'd be damned if I'd lay down after busting my balls for six and half hours!!!
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:48 AM
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Those crazy French. Were they all waving white flags?
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:28 PM
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nah but some had junk in their trunks.......they should have been pulling over instead of cycling.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:31 PM
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God are you guys predictable................
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:52 AM
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Garett - 7/11/2007 3:12 AM

I watched the last ten minutes of Tour de France last night - 3rd leg.........Can anyone explain to me why the four guys in the lead allowed the pack to catch up and why did the pack allow the guy in the yellow shirt to win the race?????? I'd be damned if I'd lay down after busting my balls for six and half hours!!!
I dunno if you want a real answer but here goes it.

-The pack can move 3-5 mph faster than a small group. They can draft more efficiently, more folks to take turns at the front & more time to rest between pulls. 95% of the time the small groups are caught within 1-5 miles to go.

-The only reason small groups are allowed to escape in the first place:
No one in the group is a threat to the Yellow Jersey.
Teams send out riders to nab the mid race sprint & climbing points,
they do this for many reasons. Mainly to win that point competition or
to protect a point lead by stopping someone else from getting the points.

-Why did they let the Yellow Jersey get free?
He's the worlds fastest flat road rider.
He is the best rider in poor road conditions, they were on cobble stones.
The sprinters hate bad roads.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:14 PM
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I understand all that stuff, but why would the four guys in that small pack (3 or 4 different teams) start to "coast" the last 1/4 mile......that's exactly what they did! I mean it was like those four guys were cycling with their six year old kids on a Sunday in the park that last 1/4 mile! I mean I watched them do it.......they physically handed the race to the guy in the yellow jersey! To me that's not racing at all!

Hopefully I have my numbers right, the announcer said a peloton can make up about 10 seconds in the closing miles of a race/ leg basically because of the draft; why would four riders from at least three different teams allow a peloton to make up 24 seconds in the last quarter mile when those four riders weren't allowing the peloton to make up any time in the last several miles???? To me being the best is proving you are the best every single time out, not being handed the victories on a gold platter!!!
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:23 PM
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More than likely the riders were from seperate teams and were not willing to take a turn at the front because that would allow the other riders to rest and be better for the sprint. Sometimes if they don't work together, it looks like they are on a leisure ride in the park. Also if the guy in the leaders jersey had a team mate in the break he would do everthing in his power to disrupt the flow so that they would get caught and the yellow jersey finishes with the peleton. Its like one big chess match and the strongest rider doesn't always win. The strongest team with the smartest director with a really strong rider will always put someone on the podiuim.

J.
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Old 07-12-2007, 06:20 PM
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Cycling is very tactical. Maybe 10% of the time a breakaway succeeds on a flat stage. One of those guys was trying to win but he couldnt escape the other 3. Also the 4 knew that only one of them would win, and perhaps 1 of the 4 was known to be a faster finisher. That gives the other 3 no incentive to try to stay out front especially if one of their teammates behind is a fast sprinter with a legitimate chance to win. In that case he might actually sabotage the breakaway to help a teammate come from behind.

With cycling there is the stage winner and everyone else, nobody remembers who comes 2nd or 3rd..and if you have no chance in a sprint, you may as well help your team.

Lastly camera exposure for the sponsor is worth a lot so they werent busting their balls all day off the front for nothing.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:37 PM
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All I know is, my wife has a bike that costs more than twice as much as a great running convertible I sold a few months ago!


Crazy stuff and equaly crazy people, those cyclists. At least with all the triathelons she does, she looks great! And she never complains about the costs of running our boat!
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:41 PM
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I like to ride a bike, but the Tour looks too much like a cross between pro wrestling and NASCAR. Riders rarely pull away, and most everyone finishes grouped at the end. Everyone gets about the same time. Worse, there was a crash near the end a couple of days ago but they still gave everyone the same time. If you fall behind, you can hang onto a car to catch up. I don't understand.

It would be a whole lot more interesting if they cut the number of riders in half, get rid of the teams, and make the rest actually race for 21 days. That would probably leave a dozen fighting it out for the win. If need be, they could have small groups of races with winners moving up like a tennis tournament ladder.

Maybe that is what they should do for a U.S. tour - make real races. 100-125 mile legs for 10-12 stages over various terrain, which would help ensure a well-rounded biker wins (enough hills so a pure sprinter cannot win, enough sprints so a pure climber won't win). Half in the East and half in the West. Race every other day. No teams. Lots of money for the top five or six finishers (say $1M to the winner, and another $1M split among the next 5), and enough for the next 50 to justify competing. Maybe Robin Williams (an avid biker) could be the driving force to get it going. Trek/Cannondale/Specialized, plus some sports drinks and others, to sponsor. There, now you have a real bike race that should attract top notch riders.
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Old 07-13-2007, 04:32 PM
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Frank007 - 7/12/2007 10:41 PMI like to ride a bike, but the Tour looks too much like a cross between pro wrestling and NASCAR. Riders rarely pull away, and most everyone finishes grouped at the end. Everyone gets about the same time. Worse, there was a crash near the end a couple of days ago but they still gave everyone the same time. If you fall behind, you can hang onto a car to catch up. I don't understand. It would be a whole lot more interesting if they cut the number of riders in half, get rid of the teams, and make the rest actually race for 21 days. That would probably leave a dozen fighting it out for the win. If need be, they could have small groups of races with winners moving up like a tennis tournament ladder. Maybe that is what they should do for a U.S. tour - make real races. 100-125 mile legs for 10-12 stages over various terrain, which would help ensure a well-rounded biker wins (enough hills so a pure sprinter cannot win, enough sprints so a pure climber won't win). Half in the East and half in the West. Race every other day. No teams. Lots of money for the top five or six finishers (say $1M to the winner, and another $1M split among the next 5), and enough for the next 50 to justify competing. Maybe Robin Williams (an avid biker) could be the driving force to get it going. Trek/Cannondale/Specialized, plus some sports drinks and others, to sponsor. There, now you have a real bike race that should attract top notch riders.
Jeez, where to start with these misconceptions...

ONly on flat stages does nobody pull away. In the mountains, it is a whole differnt story. That is where the race is won and lost. It would be unfair to penalize riders for a crash near the finsih, esp if it wasnt their fault. Also, in mass finsihes, if they did not give everyone the same time, three would be TOTAL chaos, and crashes every race.


You cannot hang on to cars to catch up, you may hang on only if the doctor is looking at your wounds.

Currently there ARE about a dozen "fighting it out for the win" maybe fewer in reality.

ANY hills and a sprinter WILL NOT win. Sprinters would lose major time in the hils and have nowhere to make it up in your scheme, same as any current stage race.

Finally,

Robin Williams is a left-wing jackass.
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Old 07-13-2007, 04:56 PM
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Not one of the better sports to sit back and watch on the tube IMO.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:00 AM
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Frank007 - 7/13/2007 7:41 PM

Trek/Cannondale/Specialized, plus some sports drinks and others, to sponsor. There, now you have a real bike race that should attract top notch riders.
I think they should get Marlboro and Budweiser to sponsor a US Tour de Bicycle racing thingy.


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Old 07-14-2007, 09:04 AM
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Jim I don't watch enough cycling to know if what Frank says is correct or not, but I definitely get a sense that in part what he is saying is correct. I think the name of the event says it all, "Tour" de France or US "Tour" (if there is such an event).........tour cycling is all that I see the majority of the cyclist doing, that's NOT racing in my books! Crips if the America's Cup was raced the same way this cycling stuff is raced we'd be watching the crews on their boats having picnics, fishing and or sun bathing the first 8/10ths of the race! What fun would it be to go to a NASCAR or an Indy race if those guys were joy riding for all but the last two or three laps. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I do know that I saw in one leg where a couple of riders fell and when they pulled themselves together and their bikes were repaired they got to draft behind a support vehicle....I said to the Misses "how on earth can that be right"? "That's NOT racing"!

On a side not, I watched a cyclist riding beside some sort of support vehicle, the cyclist was having a drink of fluids from his bottle. When the contents of the bottle was empty he threw it aside to the ground and then half reached over to the support vehicle for a fresh bottle......why didn't the cyclist just toss the empty bottle back into the car???? Obviously I don't understand this sport.
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:23 PM
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Frank007 - 7/12/2007 10:41 PM

Trek/Cannondale/Specialized
why don't you limit boat racing sponsors to sea fox. those bikes you mentioned are junk. the trek madone is decent but only lance could push it to a win. just like auto racing, you draft until the end otherwise you lose. Last year I rode every stage of the tour. to do it back to back at the speeds they ride at is incredible.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:46 PM
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When you are riding 200km, you cannot go full speed for 4-5h/day. However they are going 40km/hr or so typically. See how long you can ride at that speed, if you can get to that speed. Cycling is the hardest sport without question, day in day out 200km...Its no wonder they have doping issues. Its no different than a marathon, a 10K, whatever, they dont immediately sprint full speed when the gun goes off, right?

Although technically illegal, riders do draft through the cars to get back up, but it is really amazing the injuries they carry on with, often they wreck, break bones, lose grotesque amounts of skin, ride 20 or 40 miles, then go to the hospital! They gain no advantage by drafting a few miles.

1000s of water bottles are tossed aside every stage. They are promotional items, Coke or someone sponsors them, people probably pick them up, like a foul ball at a baseball game.
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:42 PM
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Garett - 7/15/2007 6:04 AM

...why didn't the cyclist just toss the empty bottle back into the car????
Those water bottles are highly collectible. They have the race event and date printed on them. They may even have the cyclist's name on it as well. I guarantee you it did not stay on the ground for 15-seconds after the race passed thru that area. Cool cyclists would toss the bottles towards kids, but now days they just throw them anywhere because kids will scour every inch of the race course looking for them. Weird, but he did it for the kids.

Cycling is very much a main sport of Europe (along with auto racing and the real football). It commands top dollar investors and advertisers and prime time TV airtime. There are main annual cycling events like the T de F that take place in every Euro country every year.

Oh, and the word “tour” means there is a ‘tour’ of races that occur in different places around the country, as opposed to using the same fixed course every year.


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Old 07-16-2007, 08:00 AM
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That makes perfect sense about the water bottles guys, after all advertising is advertising. And I would have to imagine the grand prize would have to be in finding the discarded bottle(s) from the overall winner of the race.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:13 AM
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Garrett,
Back to what you were talking about, the whole give it 100% & not let em catch you thing...

Those 4 riders may have been sent out by their teams to collect the intermediate sprint & climbing points. They send out a harmless rider to scoop up the sprint points so another teams sprinter can't get them. They will do this if their team is leading the points race, or if they are just trying to stop ones lead from growing. They also send them out to please the sponsers. More front time=more happy sponsers.

The teams will tell them to soft pedal at the end so the sprinters can have a go at it for the victory. There are tons of other reasons for that....
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Old 07-16-2007, 01:17 PM
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iopturbo - 7/14/2007 12:23 PM

Frank007 - 7/12/2007 10:41 PM

Trek/Cannondale/Specialized
why don't you limit boat racing sponsors to sea fox. those bikes you mentioned are junk. the trek madone is decent but only lance could push it to a win. just like auto racing, you draft until the end otherwise you lose. Last year I rode every stage of the tour. to do it back to back at the speeds they ride at is incredible.



Junk Huh? Have you ever ridden any of these? I doubt it, I guess you just ride Colnago and Seven?



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