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US Open

Old 06-18-2007, 07:36 AM
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SeaNile - 6/17/2007 10:43 PM

Yea, over rated for sure....so was that Jordan guy. All they do is win....no big deal.

--JK
Same situation. At his best, Jordan was the best the game had ever seen and there was no one at the time who even came close. Put him in the game now, and you've got several guys who would compare (Lebron, Vince Carter, Carmello, Kobe, etc.).
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:41 AM
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originalsin - 6/18/2007 7:31 AM

pugnacious33 - 6/17/2007 9:04 PM

I know this will probably cause some controversy.........

No. It will just make you look like you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Thanks. All i'm saying is when considering someone's greatness, you have to look at thier skills as well as the competition (the golfers Tiger has been competing against over the last 10 years have been have been good golfers who couldn't handle the competition when faced with it (Mickelson - how many years did it take him to win a major, and he still is a little shaky when it counts). Think of it this way Original Sin.....if we entered you into the badmitton tourney at the local old folks home.......well, no that is not a good example, they'd probably school you....

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Old 06-18-2007, 10:03 AM
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My favorite is the Vegas bet that is available for every major......Tiger or the rest of the field.

On Jordan, I agree a little bit. It's like saying Wilt wouldn't be the force he was if he played today. I think the difference with Jordan was he constantly changed his game, adapted to the defense and always was the best player out there. Kobe, Vince, Wade, etc., are all good (even awesome) but none has changed the way the game is played. kobe's well rounded game is directly modeled after Jordan's. Mike had it all, the defense, ability to drive like no one else, and then midway through his career developes that crazy turn around jumper. He pulled it off from 8'-20' from the basket. Incredible....

--JK
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:11 AM
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WOW, think about Jordan. When he was all alone on the team and scored 60, they could not win the championship. Then came Pippen and some supporting characters and viola, they are a dynasty. But beyond ALL OF THAT, he willed the team to win. He worked HARD during and offseason and accepted nothing less of his teamates...THAT is what made him great and yes, he changed the game and changed HIS game as his physical skills changed. Drive to hole, dunk over people, stop and pop, three pointers and then most importantly DEFENSE...which means he knew what it took to WIN. Kobe...yes, he is great but he does not garner the support of his teamates. Face it, he's a dick. Having someone play for your because they both fear and RESPECT you is where it's at...it takes a team and it takes a superstar to make sure it's not all about him. LeBron has that...he'll be the next "great one", no doubt about it. Wade, nope...Kobe, nope...

As for Tiger, he changed the game, the way it's played, the way it's prepared for and public perception of the game. My 5 year old (girl) will only watch Tiger. Why? I don't know...he has that effect and he is impressive.

I get the sense that he is not well-liked by other players but I don't know for sure. I do know he is the complete package...he is not overated and is something to watch...we are watching history for sure as no one will touch him for the next ten years. No way...

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Old 06-18-2007, 12:25 PM
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Glenn - 6/18/2007 11:11 AM

we are watching history for sure as no one will touch him for the next ten years. No way...
I disagree....there are a ton of guys out there with equal skills.......but which one will be able to match him mentally?
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:53 PM
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pugnacious33 - 6/18/2007 7:41 AM

originalsin - 6/18/2007 7:31 AM

pugnacious33 - 6/17/2007 9:04 PM

I know this will probably cause some controversy.........

No. It will just make you look like you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Thanks. All i'm saying is when considering someone's greatness, you have to look at thier skills as well as the competition (the golfers Tiger has been competing against over the last 10 years have been have been good golfers who couldn't handle the competition when faced with it (Mickelson - how many years did it take him to win a major, and he still is a little shaky when it counts). Think of it this way Original Sin.....if we entered you into the badmitton tourney at the local old folks home.......well, no that is not a good example, they'd probably school you....

You're probably right, because I know nothing about badminton (except how to spell it properly).

What I do know is golf. I'm a golf course superintendent with over ten years under my belt. I've also been a golfer since getting my first set of clubs at the age of 6 (24 years ago on July 3rd). With the wealth of knowledge that I've accumulated regarding the game and its players I can confidently make the statement that Tiger Woods has a skill set that is superior to nearly every other player the game has ever seen. There are only three or four players in the history of the game who even approach his level of skill.

Over-rated...??? Are we even talking about the same thing?
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Old 06-18-2007, 03:42 PM
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Over-rated in that his greatness is based on his golfing skills only, not on the quality of the guys he is beating.
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:06 PM
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pugnacious33 - 6/18/2007 12:25 PM

Glenn - 6/18/2007 11:11 AM

we are watching history for sure as no one will touch him for the next ten years. No way...
I disagree....there are a ton of guys out there with equal skills.......but which one will be able to match him mentally?
Isnt that the point? Why does he win he has the Total package as Glenn said. He has what the others dont, the mental capacity to destroy them before they even wack the crap out of that little white ball. To me the mental part would be the toughest part of the winning at the game of golf.
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:08 PM
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You may say that the quality of the current competition is subpar, because, other than Tiger, nobody has recently dominated golf as did Nicklaus, Hogan, Palmer, Player, etc.

But isn't it possible that nobody else has been able to dominate because the quality and depth of the competition is better than it's ever been?

Not a big Tiger fan, but I believe that the latter theory is a lot closer to the mark.
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:12 PM
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offshore3144 - 6/18/2007 1:06 PM

To me the mental part would be the toughest part of the winning at the game of golf.
As well as just about every other sport.
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:43 PM
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Physically better, menatally better, mechanically better...the COMPLETE package. Remember David Duval and how "great" he was? Lost his mental edge and now he can barely make the cuts.

I think Tiger gets in the other guys kitchens and it's lights out. Maybe it took a cig smoking, beer swilling guy to say F him, I'm going to beat his ass or die trying

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Old 06-18-2007, 04:56 PM
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Glenn - 6/18/2007 4:43 PM

Physically better, menatally better, mechanically better...the COMPLETE package. Remember David Duval and how "great" he was? Lost his mental edge and now he can barely make the cuts.

I think Tiger gets in the other guys kitchens and it's lights out. Maybe it took a cig smoking, beer swilling guy to say F him, I'm going to beat his ass or die trying

Glenn
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:46 PM
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pugnacious33 - 6/18/2007 3:42 PM

Over-rated in that his greatness is based on his golfing skills only, not on the quality of the guys he is beating.
You don't watch much golf do you???

Tiger is in the running in VIRTUALLY EVERY TOURNAMENT HE COMPETES IN. But when he finishes tied for second you and Johnny Miller sit around over an Iced Frappacino and have a circle jerk over how "he's slipping" and how "the hot wife and kid are getting in the way." Come on. I mean, really.........

Another lesson for you. The concept of the game is based upon one's ability to master the course, not the other players. On a given day, the player that is able to master a course to a greater extent is considered the winner. Do you watch much golf? Do you play? Are you aware that courses like August National, Oakmont, #2, Sawgrass, Medina, etc. are changed every year to make them more difficult because today's professional golfer can rip them to shreds? The talk on TV coverage every week is about how the course was made longer and more difficult than last year.

I guess it must be all this new fancy equipment......... and that golf ball that is making Monty Python freak out on those commercials.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:50 PM
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pugnacious33 - 6/17/2007 6:25 PM

Go Furyk! Cabrera is choking on that cigarette smoke.
Choked?

Let's see. You passed judgement on tattoos last week. Smokers this week. Who is it next week? Fat people? Women with holes in their ears? Just wondering.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:57 PM
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Two more things and then class is over puggie..........

Pick your field of the most talented and gifted players to ever strike a ball. Ask each and every one of them what they think about Tiger's abilities. You'll find that they're all on the same page. In fact, I've had the pleasure and honor to attend in person a Golf Channel Interview of Jack Nicklaus. Are his skills and opinion worthy, 'cause I'll bet you can guess what he has to say about Tiger.

Can you spell $70,000,000 in winnings. I think it goes something like o-v-e-r-r-a-t-e-d, if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:18 PM
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Don't pay any attention to ole Pudgy, nobody else does. Tiger is one of the greatest golfers of all time. I'm not a very big fan of his these days, but you cannot deny the talent. And he's got a lot of time left in his career. I would have liked to have seen Tiger win on Sunday but only because he's an American. Not to dismiss the excellent play of Cabrera, he deserved to win.

Golf is one of the most objective measures of sports talent that there is. Its not judged on degrees, there's almost no active participation by referees or judges, its just you and how many times you hit the ball.
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:21 PM
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lol
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:18 AM
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Shag - 6/18/2007 8:50 PM

pugnacious33 - 6/17/2007 6:25 PM

Go Furyk! Cabrera is choking on that cigarette smoke.
Choked?

Let's see. You passed judgement on tattoos last week. Smokers this week. Who is it next week? Fat people? Women with holes in their ears? Just wondering.
Next i'm going after old guys who get offended when a younger guy speaks the truth.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:06 AM
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pugnacious33 - 6/19/2007 5:18 AM

Shag - 6/18/2007 8:50 PM

pugnacious33 - 6/17/2007 6:25 PM

Go Furyk! Cabrera is choking on that cigarette smoke.
Choked?

Let's see. You passed judgement on tattoos last week. Smokers this week. Who is it next week? Fat people? Women with holes in their ears? Just wondering.
Next i'm going after old guys who get offended when a younger guy speaks the truth.
Thanks for the elightenment there Lucy.
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Old 06-19-2007, 02:10 PM
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pugnacious33 - 6/19/2007 5:18 AM

Shag - 6/18/2007 8:50 PM

pugnacious33 - 6/17/2007 6:25 PM

Go Furyk! Cabrera is choking on that cigarette smoke.
Choked?

Let's see. You passed judgement on tattoos last week. Smokers this week. Who is it next week? Fat people? Women with holes in their ears? Just wondering.
Next i'm going after old guys who get offended when a younger guy speaks the truth.

G0ddamit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was trying to get over the fact that I'm gonna be thirty in a couple of weeks and you go and call me old. Wait a minute. You said something about speaking the truth. Nevermind.
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