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Builder Screw Up

Old 05-20-2007, 08:56 PM
  #121  
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mhyzhen - 5/20/2007 7:37 PM
Brad1 - 5/20/2007 4:21 PM

Just came back from looking at the new house. Located another covered box, and possibly a third. I'm having a hard time making a determination on the third and I don't want to touch anything. For the two that I'm sure about, there is a very slight bulge where the outlet is. The bulge is distributed over a wide enough distance that it's not easy to notice unless your looking for it. I'm sure a straight edge along the wall would show it. Based on what everyone has told me so far on this thread, I'm figuring that somebody will be looking for covered boxes as part of a routine, post drywall hanging process. Besides, the GC has been told that there is a covered box. Regardless, of what you guys said, I now think I made the right choice by not telling him where it is. That way, they have to check all the walls for them. Which was my original intent, but now I'm thinking it's probably something they do anyway regardless. I don't know for sure. And like I said, the GC didn't even ask the location of the covered box when I told him about it last Friday, so he's obviously not to concerned.

The guy that's applying the joint compound was working today. This guy works two full time jobs. He does joint compound work for one employer during the day, then works for someone else on nights and weekends. A very hard working guy. Gotta respect that. I talked to him for a few minutes. I asked him if it was common for electrical boxes to be covered and he said it's not supposed to happen, but it's common. Then he said, "Yeah, I could tell as soon as I got here who the crew was that hung you drywall". I asked why's that? He said, they drive him nuts because about every other screw isn't set deep enough (as in sticking up above the surface of the paper) and he has to spend about a day fixing their work before he can start the dry wall finishing. He said he keeps complaining to his boss, but he doesn't listen. I guess you get what you pay for. And I guess you don't have to pay these dry wall installers too much.

There were some drywall screws laying around and I picked one up to see how long they were. They were about one inch. The length of the screw definately reduces the likelyhood that they hit wiring.

Garrett, no marks on the drywall or on the floor where the outlet boxes are.

The hole in the subfloor of the master bedroom that has been there for a month is still there. What irks me is that of the problems I have told the GC about, never once has he even replied that they would be taken care of, and only two of them have been taken care of. So the GC some of you guys have a bleeding heart for, could definately be doing a better job to assure me that these things would get taken care of. Did you ever stop and think maybe there's a reason I'm getting a little irritated? I know that none of these problems have been monumental, but on the boating forum I hear people complain about similar type of dealings / response from boat dealerships and it seems to irk them too. I don't think it's just me fellas. I would venture to say that if you were in my shoes, you'd be getting irked a little bit too.
did you ever stop to think that the plumber needed to get in the floor for some reason............and ive got good maney that says the GC for your job "doesnt seem so concerned" because he knows what he is doing.....and he is letting all your comments and questions roll of his back.....that would be so he doesnt spend all day "PLAYING 20 QUESTIONS WITH YOU"
The hole in the floor was caused by a truss that fell. At least that's what the GC told me. And I think I already posted that. It was not a cut hole and there is no plumbing in that vicinity. Maybe your right about how the GC is handling things. But then again, he hasn't said anything. And your inferring (incorrectly I might add) that I'm giving the GC a hard time about these things. I am not. As I mentioned several times already, I expressed on this web site that I was pissed, but when I contacted the GC I did not take it out on him. Sure I let him know what I had found. Only an idiot would not have. If youbuy a new boat, and you find a defect, do you not let the dealership know. Apparently you must not, becauseotherwise you wouldn't be giving me such a hard time about reporting a problem to myGC. But if you do, then your a hypocrite.

If you havesomething constructive to say, let's hear it. If all you can do is bash other folks, find someone else to annoy. Maybe your Mommy or Daddy should take your computer away.
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:03 PM
  #122  
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In Brad1's defense, I always at least respond to my customers when they raise a question or concern. Even if it's a simple, "I got your message and I'll look in to it." This builder may go about it differently.
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:37 PM
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I guess Brad you didn't see my 1st response, Most drywall installers cover the boxes!Bing bang boom,they get the job done in no time then head for the next job. But they should "rout" them out before they are finished.That is what was done on my added 2nd floor. In my state the code is to have an outlet every 7' and so many inches above the floor. I'm not sure what the code for switch boxes is but they know where to look for them. Look up your state's code on wiring,you'll probably get a better idea on where they are located.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:02 AM
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mhyzhen - 5/21/2007 6:01 AM ok, i posted befor ei saw you explain the hole........but no biggie.....do you really think the builder is going to carpet over a soft spot in the floor ??.....do you really think he needs you to call him and tell about the power service, sh!t happens on job sites, and it wouldnt be the first time someone worked by generater light......just how many times a day do you call your GC ?.....a week ??......do you really thijnk he has the time or desire to put up with your petty sh!t all day long......and I GARUANTEE YOU, IF YOU HAVE CALLED YOUR GC ABOUT EVERY LITTLE THING YOU INFER......hes sick and fukkin tired of the sound of your voice.....i agree with the other guy.....i doubt you are the type that can be truely happy unless your riding someones ass......i bet your wife really looks forward to the weekends ! and as far as your kids go.....you may the one case where its better for them to be raised without a father........ ......now, bring up family shit again..............................ya know, everyone you come across isnt a computer bad azz......some of us are like that in real life...maybe the next time you come asking for advice, you can try to sound alot less like a puzzy having a flair up, and a little more like someone who isnt trying out for the nancy boy award..... sorry if come across harsh...but if i see a fuktard, im going to call him a fuktard, and im not going to be nice about it.......sorry if that offends you, maybe you should stop and think about why it does ??...does the truth you try to hide from bother you ?
Your such a jerk, why should I even listen to what you say. The more Ithink about it, itjust makes me laugh. Keep it coming. The more you write, the less you matter. Your the one making an A hole of yourself, not me.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:30 AM
  #125  
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WOW!

7 PAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A couple covered over nail on boxes sure does cause a big stir.

Once again it ain't a big deal, simple quick fix.

The sheetrock finisher complaining about the sheet rock hangers? Never met a trade that didn't complain about the previous trade. The sheet rock finisher complains about the sheetrock hanger, the hangers complain about the crocked arse walls the carpenters left, the carpenters complain about the out of level, unsquare slab, the concrete finishers complain about the concrete coming from the ready mix company, the electricians complain about this and that, the plumbers complain about them guys. All this complaining does not mean that at some point a complaint is not valid, it just means they all love to complain. Each trade likes to portrait itself as having a harder time than the preceeding trade.

Nearest I can remember the sheetrock hangers in this area do not cut out the boxes until the board is hung. And they don't mark them either. When they put the screws in they can tell where a box is by the way the screw pulls down on the board. While they are screwing the board down they cut the boxes out.

Building a home is one of the single most stressful things you can do. Lots of money, lots of time, lots of work are all envolved, adds up to a big time stress headache. It is easier said than done, but Brad you need to get a handle on the stress. Why did you pick your GC, has he done good work in the past? If so trust him he will get it all done. By the way I do mean"trust but verify". Your GC is not going to leave you with a home electrical system that halfway works.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:34 AM
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mymojo - 5/20/2007 5:37 AM

Hey RI Builder - believe me I was'nt the one causing gray hair that day! It was the neighbor who objected to the 102 vehicles clogging up the street for 2+ years running. They've since instituted a van pool set up to keep the vehicles down to 20 on site.
Wonder how many junction boxes have been covered.........





RI Builder - 5/19/2007 8:50 PM

mymojo - 5/19/2007 7:42 PM

Working on a house now that had 117 tradesmen in/on it this past Thursday. Big push to get the house ready for occupancy in the middle of June. The place was like an ant hill on the 4th of July. GC's hair was changing color right before my eyes - brown to gray......
Having the architect on site will do that to you.

Could not resist
No problem at all right there - we will get that on the punch list - do not worry.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:36 AM
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heres how it works.....we had a client who was absurdly anal.....everything had to be absolutely air tight.(forget blond,this guy didnt want to see red)..he was nuts and drove everyone crazy......yet the builder and the architect are falling over themselves to work for this guy.....the architect opened a three man office half way across the country to service this guy............when you spend 10s of millions you get to be anything you want.........when your house is just another job you're on defense not offense.........not saying it shouldn't be done right...everything should.......just saying its in your own best interest to play the game to your best advantage.......unless its really a screw up ...which none of this is....be cool and trust the builder.....thats why you hired him....so he could worry about the little stuff
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:48 AM
  #128  
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Thanks twentynine.

Like I mentioned through the posts, more than just a couple covered boxes. But like I also pointed out nothing monumental. And like I also mentioned, the GC has indicated that he appreciates that I point out the things I have. He said it makes his life easier and that it can cost the builder alot less to fix things early on, rather than have to fix them later after the house is complete. The problem is, he doesn't give me any indication that things will get fixed, and for the most part, things haven't been getting fixed. If you read my post about the dangerous situation with the temporary electric, he just didn't seem to give a crap. Even though one person already got shocked. I had to intervene to get someone out there.

I went through a builder that does have a pretty good reputation in my area. They have a couple of GCs. The one they assigned to my build, well, I'm just not too sure about.

I know what you mean about 7 pages. Some folks that don't have anything constructive to say just gotta trash and give their opinions. You know what they say about opinions. Also, I learned a lesson growing up that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. I guess not everyone learned that lesson.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:20 AM
  #129  
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I don't mean to be rude, but I feel a need to repeat what I said earlier.

So once more:

The CG has indicated that he appreciates that I point out the things that I have. He said that it not only makes his life easier, but that IT COSTS THE BUILDER LESS TO FIX THINGS EARLY ON RATHER THAN HAVE TO FIX THEM AFTER THE HOUSE IS COMPLETE.

Again: IT COST THE BUILDER LESS TO FIX THINGS EARLY ON, RATHER THAN AFTER THE FACT.

So while you some of you may think I'm nit picking, I'm doing them a favor.

My pointing things out to him is by his request as well as my desire to make sure things are overlooked.

Are we clear ?


Thanks.

Brad
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:33 AM
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By the way, my previous post was only directed at a select few.

To everyone else that has genuinely offered good advice, I want to say thanks. It is genuinely appreciated.

Brad
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:37 AM
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The last time I checked people were allowed to have opinions. If mine is wrong, then so be it. But even as I read your multiple responses, I see what I see and like I said I would not want to work for you. Contractors do not like to be ridden or feel like you are checking up on them.

The "h" is in the screen name "fichtion" for a reason.

And Mr. TN. I did make that post about you. I thought that you had come on THT very loudly and with a ton a posts just trying to mix things up. Again my opinion. If the group on THT has accepted you then I was wrong about you.

I think (my opinion) that perhaps the two of you guys put too much thought and really care what anonymous members on a forum think of you.

Good luck with your house and good luck with the Hatteras'.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:50 AM
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Brad,

The holes in the subfloor as you describe......the repair really all depends on the size and location. If the holes are the size of a soft ball and smaller I would cover over them with a scrap piece of sheet metal from the heat duct work. These scrap metal pieces are just nailed down. If the metal goes bong-bong when I step on it they Iíll just ping the metal with the claw of the hammer to remove the flex in the metal. Iíve also had to apply a second much larger layer over the first patch to give the floor (hole) stability, this is done in non-high traffic areas. It is only larger holes that receive the proper wood patch work, that or a vinyl floor is being laid over top and only sometimes in high traffic areas (depending on what type of finish flooring was going over top).

As far as the electrical work being done, now I donít know if my numbers work down your way or not, but I would figure on 25 - $30 per box (this includes box, wire, switch/ outlet, cover and labor - at a ruff in stage). So if you had 10 extra outlets added after the fact for your custom needs then I would figure you should be banking on an additional 250 - $300 up charge. When you do eventually get around to talking with the electrical contractor guy again, in passing ask him what he charges for outlet boxes at a ruff in stage, then you can do your own math......and afterwards you can hold him to it if his numbers comes up differently.

Hand written notes to the GC are far more effective then verbal communication......the message keeps giving. But in saying that, I know and I know many here know, to climb a ladder is done one rung at a time. A concern by the client is immediate, whereas the GC knows he is not at the stage to deal with that particular concern and therefore doesnít......but that is no excuse for a lack of communications. Personally Iíd sooner have someone that can walk the walk apposed to talk the walk....get my meaning? Case in point: the holes in the subfloor(s), why fix a few holes today when the GC knows full well other could be made......it doesnít pay to have a man do the work a second time around........therefore the GC could in fact be saving you or him money.

IMO the real hard part for the client is to know how to be a good client or one that is not......itís a fine line that is invisible, but the rewards or consequences are not invisible!
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:56 AM
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fichtion - 5/21/2007 8:37 AM The last time I checked people were allowed to have opinions. If mine is wrong, then so be it. But even as I read your multiple responses, I see what I see and like I said I would not want to work for you. Contractors do not like to be ridden or feel like you are checking up on them. The "h" is in the screen name "fichtion" for a reason. And Mr. TN. I did make that post about you. I thought that you had come on THT very loudly and with a ton a posts just trying to mix things up. Again my opinion. If the group on THT has accepted you then I was wrong about you. I think (my opinion) that perhaps the two of you guys put too much thought and really care what anonymous members on a forum think of you. Good luck with your house and good luck with the Hatteras'.
fichtion, well said and I respect your opinion.

Please accept myapology for lashing out at you in my last reply. But I felt like youincorrectly and unfairly judged me.

Do I do have high expectations? Absolutely. But I have high expectations (probably even higher) for myself as well.I am a fair person. I believe that anybody that knows me would agree with that. All I ever ask foris what is fair and equitible.

Thanks again.

Brad
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:11 AM
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Let me just interject a thought here.

There is a big difference between offering an opinion on a subject vs a personal attack on another member.

Some haven't figured that out yet. If someone insults you for whatever reason, that person will return fire.

Most of us are adults on here, but then again, some are not as evidenced by the fact they cannot express themselves without getting into childish exchanges of name calling and cyber cussing like a teen-ager.

Again gentlemen, look up the definition of forum and maybe that will help with things like this.

To Brad, once again, I'm sure all this will get straightened out for you.
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:39 AM
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Brad, I appreciate your attentiveness to details but please remember that this is your first house building project. Your builder has built many houses and he has gone through this many times. I am the same way when it comes to making things right when I am having something built. I want it perfect. But I have learned to get out of their way and let them get to it. If you make a punch list for him, he will get them all at the end. Don't stress so much on this. My wife and I are building as we speak. We agreed to make this a fun project. We have been doing this one for about 4 months and it is great. The last project she was a miserable person. She worried about everything. I couldn't handle her stress and it made me stressed. Try to relax and enjoy this process. You want to live in this house for many years and feel good about it. Best of luck.
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:52 AM
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I did not read all the pages (first 4-5) and somebody may have already said this. close this thread already. people watch too much TV and see all these houses and projects being built perfect in 2 days, that's not real life.

And this is exactly why I ask my clients if they are going to live in a house we are remodeling (to please move out) or not to come and tell me what's wrong with the house we are building until it is finished.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:07 AM
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Most owners come around looking after everyone has gone home...then you get the anoying phone calls, usually a different call for each thing. What we do with troublesome owners is leave a clip board on the wall and ask the owner to write down any concerns they have. Works out well.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:38 AM
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I'm sorry, butsome of you guys missed the point. As I've said over and over, my GC said to let him know when I see anything wrong. He said he appreciates the 2nd set of eyes. He is spread thin and he said I am actually helping him by keeping an eye on things and reporting anything I see wrong. Sorry to have to keep repeating that, but I've posted that numerous times and it seems folks haven't noticed. Seriously, the GC is fine with how I am interacting with him. That aspect of the build is occurring the way HE requested. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE. So can we please move past this feeling sorry for the GC. He's fine with me. Ok ?

My original post was sharing what I had discovered with the buried electrical boxes. I was hoping some one with real world experience with this sort of thing would chime in and tell me about how the same problem was remedied for them, or someone that does this for a living corrects these problem. And I admit, I did a terrible job of stating that's what I really wanted to know. Yet, some folks realizedthe type of advice I neededand provided the type of answers I was looking for. And I am genuinely appreciative of that. Everyone else that provided constructive responses, thanks
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:00 PM
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says you, but how do we know that you don't have the poor guy chained to a stanchion post in the basement? [img]../images/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:22 PM
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Captain Sid - 5/21/2007 11:00 AM says you, but how do we know that you don't have the poor guy chained to a stanchion post in the basement? [img]../images/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
Well, I am supposed to take the GC and his buddies fishing. We had plans to head to Erie back on the 12th, but a nasty cold front and winds from the NE shut us down. Would've had to been crazy to head out on the lake that day.

But now you got me thinking. Maybe I'll tell him that he'll see shore again once the problems with the house are fixed.
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