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Builder Screw Up

Old 05-18-2007, 11:07 AM
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By the way, I want to thank everyone for their replies.

Some of you have helped put my mind at ease. I've calmed down a bit on this. I also appreciate the technical info on how the boxes can be detected as well as the perspectives from those of you that are either in the business, or more experienced with this type of endeavor than I am.

Thanks again.

Brad
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:10 AM
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Brad1 - 5/18/2007 11:47 AM



thresher15 - 5/18/2007 9:26 AM So what happens when a drywall screw hits a wire? Does it go unnoticed until one day zap or does the circuit short the first time powered up?
Isn't that the reason that the wires are set back 1 1/4" into the framing? I would hope that the drywallers aren't using screws longer than 1 1/2" inches.
I don't know, I sell chicken for a living It has been mentioned twice in this thread so what's up with that is all I'm sayin'.
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:22 AM
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Brad1 - Seriously, I know what you mean. You can feel pretty marginalized for someone who's footing the bill for the whole project, let alone going to be the one living there.

Good luck with the rest of the build. Our target completion time is June 15th. I say no sooner than 4th of July for the CO though.
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Old 05-18-2007, 12:42 PM
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If you are finishing the board now and you make june 15 or july 4 you are in great shape. Doors, trim, kitchen cabinets, tile, floors, paint and finish plumbing and elec. Thats alot of work. Most guys use 1 5/8 drywall screws. Any wire hole closer than 1 1/4 should have a nailer plate on it. It will save alot of work in the end.
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:39 PM
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The only possible way an electrical box (switch, outlet, light) could be missed is if it just so happens to be at the end of a run. Most places allow for 11 outlets per run. If a junction point is covered over in the middle of the 11 outlet run then the subsequence outlets will not work......a small oversight shows up in a multitude of locations. But if that last box on the run of 11 is covered over then you would have live wires uncapped in some sort of box behind the wall.

Dave as good as the Toner units are, it would not be practical to use for this application.......the drywall has just been installed and therefor none of the wires are joined together to give the operator of the instrument a continuous reading. All the operator would be able to test at this stage of the game is to know if the wires inside the walls have a continuum between the starting point and ending point of any given length of wire. Reading the blueprint would be much faster.

When a house is going to be built plans are drawn up, these become the blueprints in which the house is built from. Then you’ll go over your completed plans with the architect and make whatever changes you see fit. Then the GC gets the various trades to bid on the various jobs based off of the blueprints that you paid for. When all of the bids are in and the house starts to take shape, the house is built from the very same plans you paid for in the first place and all the various trades bid on to land the contract. And it is those very same plans that all building inspectors associated to the various trades rely on for their inspections. First they will look over the blueprints to get an understanding of what they will be inspecting and then they’ll do their walk through......any discrepancies outside the norm with what they see the first place they’ll turn to is the GC and the blueprints. In the case of a final electrical inspection it will only take the inspector 2 - 5 seconds to look over a room to see if anything has been missed.......these inspector can do this stuff in their sleep!


A while back I got called in to rectify a situation that had gone terribly wrong.......the home owner thought he could save a few bucks and be his own GC. When I stepped in the various trades and builder had already started a class action suit against the guy.....George was being a REAL dickhead! Long story short, George covered the initial legal expenses filed against him. On more then a few occasions I had to literally tell George to shut the hell up and get the hell out of here, actually I had to escort him from the property a number of times....it was bad! But the bottom line was, I got the class action suit dropped, I GC the rest of the project, got the trades back to work and got the job completed to a standard in which I was happy with. I even got George a reduction in price because I knew full well he wasn’t going to be getting any follow up repair work from that crew....George paid me to do his service work.

So you be careful Brad on how far you push.....remember you can push on an elephant, but the elephant is the one that can really push back!
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:43 PM
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I love that........."I sell chickens for a living"

thresher15 - 5/18/2007 9:26 AM So what happens when a drywall screw hits a wire? Does it go unnoticed until one day zap or does the circuit short the first time powered up?
Really that's a 50/50 thing. For the screw to be a direct short it would have to bridge the hot lead to the ground wire or the common wire to the ground wire.....a drywall screw is not wide enough to plow through a ground wire and breach the jacket on both the hot and common feeds. With saying that, if a drywall screw has breached either the hot or common wire and has bridged the ground wire as soon as power is fed to the circuit the breaker should trip. Now in the far remote chance the breaker is faulty and doesn't trip then yes one could possibly end up with a fire.......but I've seen burnt sheathing and exposed wires two and three feet long in a wall and yet there was no fire.....but chances are you will have fire inside the wall cavity.

The electrical inspector should pick up shallow hole placements in studs when he does his ruff in inspection....then he suggest a steel plate over the shallow hole......the electricians generally pick this up as they are pulling their wire and rectify the situation before the ruff in inspection. Inside corners are a common place to see shallow holes and steal plates protecting them.

Now in saying that, what if a drywall screw or a nail breaches the jacket of a wire and only nicks either the hot or common wire......nothing, just that the wire's jacket has been compromised. But in saying that, let's say the screw or nail breached the jacket on the hot feed and was actually touching the bare wire.........now if you touched the exposed head of the screw or nail and you were standing in water and the circuit was live, you would get a shock. If it were only the common wire you would receive a mild tingling. But in the case of a drywall screw the dried drywall compound, primer and paint would act as a good shield and you would not feel anything, the same applies to trim nails.

I hope I covered that properly for you..............”I sell chickens for a living”.......man I loved that one - good for you! I bet'ca yah do quite well at it too.
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Old 05-18-2007, 03:11 PM
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I've had 2 houses built and my wife has been in construction/RE/warranty for 10 years. You need to relax. If you have a concern, write it down. When you are calm, address the issue with those involved. I was just like you. The dire concerns I had at the time went away and I never thought about them a year later. I was stressed at the time. This is supposed to be fun! Be cordial to the GC is the best advice. Don't drive him nuts.
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:11 PM
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Garett - 5/18/2007 3:39 PM Dave as good as the Toner units are, it would not be practical to use for this application.......the drywall has just been installed and therefor none of the wires are joined together to give the operator of the instrument a continuous reading. All the operator would be able to test at this stage of the game is to know if the wires inside the walls have a continuum between the starting point and ending point of any given length of wire.
Garrett, This is exactlywhy toners were developed. Additionally, I think Brad1 mentioned that the electrical plans, or lack thereof, can basically be thrown away at this point because they did a "walk-thru layout" prior to rough and it sounds like nothing was recorded into the Contract Drawings.
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:51 PM
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Brad, You do not have a problem........ Yet........ Don’t create one that just might be very costly.



Ray, Tennessee 2180DLX Carolina Skiff 90HP Honda
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:18 PM
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worked in the trades for years...this might surprise you ,but just like you.....folks make mistakes......listen to ray...relax and nicely bring it to the GCs attention and expect to get it fixed...no prob...........there are real horror stories.....this aint one.......how about the roofing crew that incorrectly tarped my friends roof.....big storm comes and the livingroom cieling collapses.....they retarp and friend gets up at 3 in the morning because the dogs are acting funny....takes them out into the snow covered back yard looks at the house and realizes they tarped over the chimney.....my friend climbed up on the roof with a knife and cut a hole.............luckily no one died.........thats a problem
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:34 PM
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relax brad, tell your GC.... believe me if you treat them like pricks they will get it back in spades.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:43 PM
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chill out ... this $hit happenns everyday and will be caught on trim out. The attitude will come back and bite you in the a$$ !!!
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:04 PM
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OK Dipshyt..I've had my beer, the solution is REAL simple. 1) You put a straightedge on the wall, where the hump is is where the box is. 2) You take your "tick" and search the suspected location. 3) You measure from the other receptacles, because the electrician will remember what he did. BTW, they're all the same distance off the floor. 4) The world ain't gonna end, yer friggin' house ain't gonna burn down, unfortunately. 5) I pity your builder.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:18 PM
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The three biggest causes of house fire's in America today are.............................





































Momma, Poppa and Kids.



Just look for the humps in the rock, piece of cake.

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Old 05-19-2007, 05:43 AM
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billinstuart - 5/18/2007 8:04 PM OK Dipshyt..I've had my beer, the solution is REAL simple. 1) You put a straightedge on the wall, where the hump is is where the box is. 2) You take your "tick" and search the suspected location. 3) You measure from the other receptacles, because the electrician will remember what he did. BTW, they're all the same distance off the floor. 4) The world ain't gonna end, yer friggin' house ain't gonna burn down, unfortunately. 5) I pity your builder.
I pity your parents. Dipshyt.
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Old 05-19-2007, 06:13 AM
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billinstuart - 5/18/2007 8:04 PM OK Dipshyt..I've had my beer, the solution is REAL simple. 1) You put a straightedge on the wall, where the hump is is where the box is. 2) You take your "tick" and search the suspected location. 3) You measure from the other receptacles, because the electrician will remember what he did. BTW, they're all the same distance off the floor. 4) The world ain't gonna end, yer friggin' house ain't gonna burn down, unfortunately. 5) I pity your builder.
Some folks just can't help but make ASSumptions.

Let me clear things up for you billinstuart. On Thursday evening, when Ifound the covered box, I notified my builder via text message. I did so in a civil manner. Sure, I vented here, but I kept things rational when I communicated the issue to the builder. In that message, I did not convey the location of the covered box, nor did I mention that I was not going to tell him where it was. I merely communicated to him that I had discovered anelectrical box that was covered. Nothing more, nothing less. So I didn't do anything offending to the GCyou are feeling so sorry for.

Yesterday morning,theGCcalled me to say that it's no big deal, they'll fix the box (which is really just fluff words, but I didn't let him know that was what I was thinking). The conversation was short (and no, I don't mean I was short with him, it just didn't last long), and he didn't even ask the location of the box. Which I thought was interesting.

In summary, I never once informed the GC that I was not going to tell him where the covered box was, and he didn't ask the location. So him not knowing the location of the box is as much his choice as mine.

So billinstuart(or should I say"ball less in stuart&quot maybe you should know what your talking about before you go calling folks names. In actuality, you are the true Dipshyt here.
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:51 AM
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Reread YOUR earlier post..I told you how it's done, now it's your turn to uphold your side of YOUR deal. You can read?
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:57 AM
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I done the electrical work on my own home. This is not a big problem, these kinda things happen day in and day out. The dry wallers and the electrician all have experience in dealing with this exact type of problem.

When I done the electrical layout and it was a walkthrough layout. No plans, just putting recpt. and switches where they needed to be or where the code required them. Below the location of every box I marked the floor with an X and a notation of box heigth. Recpt. are all about the same heigth and switches are about the same. Of course general contractors or dry wallers don't spend the time doing this extra little step because they are professionals and think they don't need to. But in truth almost every home I have ever been associated with has had atleast one missed box. Sometimes it stayed "missing" up until completion.
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:39 AM
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billinstuart - 5/19/2007 6:51 AM Reread YOUR earlier post..I told you how it's done, now it's your turn to uphold your side of YOUR deal. You can read?
I read your solution and it'skinda lame.

First off, your answerASSumes that the suspected locations are all known. I think it is you that needs to learn to read because (and for about the 3rd freagin' time) the problem is NOT KNOWING WHERE THE SUSPECTED LOCATIONS ARE ! ! ! Holy crap, how many timesdo you gotta be told man ? ! ?I pity your boss (that is, if you even are employeed).

Second, the electrician is gone for now. Off to other jobs. And who knows if it will even be the same electrician that comes out to finish the job. I believe the builder hires an electical firm, and that firm has numerous employees. Your ASSumption is that the same electrician that ran the wiring and installed the boxes, will be the same one that they send outto do the small amount of work remaining. He might send out a junior guy for that.

Third, you fail (as you probably do often in life) to realize that none of that would have to be done if the dry wall installers didn't cover over the outlet box(es) in the first place.

Fourth, who's to say the GC is even going to take any of those steps you mentioned to rectify the problem. Heck, I don't know if he's even visiting the place. As I mentioned in a prior post, half of the things I pointed out weren't even taken care of. And he hasn't even told me that they will be taken care of. But no, I'm the bad guy. Please.

I'll hold up my end of the bargain when you can come up with something worthwhile. But until then, please go waste someone else's time. Seriously man, if you can't contribute anything meaningful, please find someone else to bother.
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Old 05-19-2007, 08:40 AM
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Why are you posting this nonsense on a boating forum? You are making lemons out of lemonade. You'll get alot further with your GC if you work with him. Builders take alot of shyt from homeowners and when something of real concern needs to be addressed you don't want your GC thinking your crying wolf again. I don't post much but read THT daily and this tread belongs in the bilge. Go Easy!
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