"Refine" THIS!

Old 05-10-2007, 12:38 AM
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Well, I'm not EVEN gonna' get involved with the why, where, when, how much, etc. stuff about gas prices - maybe just see what the reaction may be ...

Since there have been no new oil refineries built in the U.S. for some 35 years, and much of the current "problem" seems to be "supply", based on the LACK of refineries here, in the U.S. ...

WHAT IF - the Feds OFFERED a "fast track approval/method" for the (ANY!) oil companies to BUILD 2 or 3 or 10 or more NEW REFINIERIES (IN THE U.S!) to get the DOMESTIC SUPPLY side back UP and prices back DOWN?

Now, this would/might entail 1) Lessoning the paperwork, restrictions, lead time, etc. the oil companies complain about to get the design/construction/online stuff DONE to, say 1-2years - vs. 10 years or more, 2) Keep the environmentalists "semi-happy", or even BYPASS all the frivilious crap.

In other words, if the oil companies see this above stuff as a "disincentive" to build NEW refineries, then let's help them with the INCENTIVE end - NOT subsidies - just getting some new "supply" ON LINE!

THEN, if the "offer" by the Feds (since they are probably the ONLY ones that can "shorten" the required lead time/BS) is NOT "accepted" by the oil companies, then, the Feds will build their OWN refineries, and have them PRIVATELY operated (i.e. NOT run by ANY Fed agency and COMPLETELY apart from the Fed government - other than "overseeing" the operation to make sure it's PRODUCING!).

Feds can finance/pay for the refineries from their OWN coffers (i.e. monies saved from foreign aid, foreign wars that are "winding down", etc.). They could even charge a one-time "refinery tax" of, say $100, to the owner of EVERY registered vehicle in the U.S. - payable at the next "vehicle registration".

Nobody's gonna' use any LESS gas anytime soon - at least NOT enough to "make a difference" (we're "self-serving" that way), and nobody's gonna' switch EVERYTHING they OWN over to a "hybrid"

O.K. - that's all I got for now - talk amongst yourselves!

Am I being realistic here - or "living on another planet"???

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Old 05-10-2007, 10:37 AM
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I love your pictures that you occasionaly post on here. However you have asked a question that has no readily obtainable answer. A conservative person would agree totally with your hypothesis but a liberal would start to point out all the bad things that could happen if you let the "corporate monsters" loose to rape and pilage the land so they can make more profit. If the Feds were to build and try to operate the refineries we would be talking about cost overruns so large as to make the war funds in Iraq look like small change, that's just the way our Federal government works, whoever is in charge.

I do believe that some type of lessening of rules and regulations is needed to make this happen and the conservationists will fight to our last dollar to see that this doesn't happen. Look at nuclear reactors. Nuclear power is perhaps the cleanest(during operation) power source we have, maybe other than wind and water, but we haven't built a new nuclear power plant in forever, since Three Mile Island, due to, in my opinion, unfounded fears of contamination, etc. However we continue to let Teddy Kennedy drive a car and more people have died in his cars than died from the accident at Three Mile Island. A Democratic friend of mine ran for the Senate seat here in Wyoming and advocated building nuclear plants and turning coal into diesel, and then wondered why the Democratic party didn't back him.

I agree with you, something has to be done, but it's like politics and religion, we can argue and discuss those items all the time, but will probably never come to a conclusion that will satisfy everybody.
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Old 05-10-2007, 10:53 AM
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You have touched on the answer to the high fuel cost problem.
The number of lawsuits that have been filed against every application for new refineries is staggering. My father is in the oil industry. The environmentalist have even filed lawsuits to stop some of the rebuilding due to Katrina. He once joke that a lawsuit was filed on behalf of every bug,tree,blade of grass within a 100 miles of the site. They have decided that's it just not worth it. Think about it,Not one refinery build in the US in the last 35 years!
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:02 AM
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I wish they would just build a bunch all of the facilities mentioned above.... Then again, i r an engineer.....
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Old 05-12-2007, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: "Refine" THIS!

believe me, there are other reasons that refineries aren't/havn't been built.
more refineries=more gas =less profits. think about it .
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:17 AM
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Besides - would YOU invest billions of dollars in a factory (refinery) that WILL be obsolete and out of business in 50 years?

Furniture biz in western MA is a teeny weeny example. No trees = no more furniture production. No oil and a 20 B plant is done.

Could be worse... couldn't it?
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:40 AM
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I have to agree with a couple of above posters, the underlined issue at hand is: why spend hundreds of millions to make less profit! ?

Now I haven't confirmed this at this time, but I've heard tell if we buy a new gas guzzling vehicle (like a truck to pull our boats) we have to pay an additional $4,000 tax above the cost of the vehicle and all the other bullsh!t, including tire and A/C taxes!
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:00 AM
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maxpax - 5/14/2007 11:17 AM

Besides - would YOU invest billions of dollars in a factory (refinery) that WILL be obsolete and out of business in 50 years?

Furniture biz in western MA is a teeny weeny example. No trees = no more furniture production. No oil and a 20 B plant is done.

Could be worse... couldn't it?
50 years is forever in the factory world. In that amount of time, the plant would be paid for thousands of times over. Most plants are only designed to last 30-40 years. Thats across the board standard for this counrty. Other countries, like China, will build a plant designed to last as litte as ten years. They will fire up a "cheaply" built factory to hit a niche market & undercut all the market. All with little or no regard for the enviornment.

The cost of building one a refinery is just a drop in the bucket to big oil. They would quickly recoup the costs with the more efficent/cleaner processes of today.

But, where would they put one? That's a big problem.

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