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Any scams with wire transfers?

Old 03-15-2007, 09:03 AM
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Default Any scams with wire transfers?

Is anyone here familiar with any scams using wire transfer? I'm selling a vehicle on Ebay and have a user in Italy (who has a 100% feedback over several years and 20 transactions) who seems to think he will win it, and has asked about using wire transfer from his bank to mine. I don't know of any scams involving that, but thought maybe some of y'all did. Obviously, it's for the exact amount of the car, and i would setup another account that isn't related to my main account to get the money. I've used wire xfer in the past and didn't know of any issues as I think it's instantaneous; just thought I would check.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

Anyone?
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

I googled Wire Transfer Scams and got sevedral returns.

here is one
http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/scams/sc9452.htm

Fake Check Scams, Wire Transfers Dominate
2006 Fraud Lists

NCL’s Fraud Center Releases Telemarketing, Internet Scam Trends for 2006

Release Date: January 23, 2007
Contact: 202-835-3323, media@nclnet.org

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Today the National Consumers League (NCL) released its annual lists of the top telemarketing and Internet scams plaguing consumers in 2006, with Fake Check Scams topping the Telemarketing Fraud list and ranking 3rd among Internet-based scams. Fake Check Scams, in which victims receive a realistic-looking phony check and don’t discover it’s no good until after depositing it and wiring money back to the crook, have been on the rise since NCL created a category for the scam in its fraud database in 2003; in 2006, Fake Check Scams ranked #4 and #5 in the Fraud Center’s Internet and Telemarketing scam reports, respectively.

Other trends in 2006 included a dramatic increase in the number of wire transfers involved in scams reported to the Fraud Center. This method of payment outnumbered all others, including credit cards, bank debits, and money orders, in both Telemarketing and Internet Fraud reports.

“Consumers are losing money to Fake Check Scams in frightening numbers, and they’re losing the money permanently to crooks that are operating from foreign countries,” said Susan Grant, Director of NCL’s Fraud Center. “Con artists are growing increasingly creative with their pitches to victims, but the bottom line is the same. Whether you’re being offered a ‘prize,’ a ‘job,’ or overpayment for something you’re selling, if someone is offering to send you a check and have you wire some amount of it back, you’re in for trouble.”

NCL suggests that banks can help to prevent customers from becoming victims by handing them information about fake check scams whenever they deposit sizable checks, training tellers to explain that just because customers may have access to the funds they deposit does not mean that the checks are “good,” and using technology to detect unusual amounts of deposits by customers and contacting them before the checks are sent for processing.

To help consumers avoid scams and rip-offs, NCL’s Fraud Center has added a new feature at www.fraud.org, a calendar with tips of the month. In January, the tips focus on avoiding counterfeit drugs. The September tips are on fake check scams. To see each month’s tips, or to read the full Internet and Telemarketing Fraud Report of 2006, visit www.fraud.org.



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Old 03-15-2007, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

I've never heard of a wire trnsfer scam. His bank will have to verify that the funds are available and your bank will confirm that the transaction has taken place and then you would send the goods.
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

Hey Joe I just got took for $1,143.28 in a wire transfer transaction, but I was the buyer.

edit: I transferred money via Western Union.

With saying that and what I now know.........

- you are the seller...you set the terms, Not him!
- keep the sale 100% on ebay and DO NOT deviate, ebay supposedly is your protection against fraud!
- naaaaaaaaah going bank from bank wouldn't work for me....that's giving out your personal banking information - [RED]NOT!!!!! !!!!!! !!!!!! DON'T DO THAT, EVER!!!!!![/RED]

Nope Joe, take lesser money but do not get roped into this buyer......he is far to anxious for my liking! The person that ripped me off was anxious. He had his sights on a mark (me) and he pulled all the stops to land the deal....he did and I LOST!

Here’s something Joe you WILL want to read over......maybe your guy is on the list, mine was....if I’d have only known.
http://nekkidtruth.blogspot.com/index.html
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

I didn't read the articles, but yes, you can scam someone using a wire transfer. I don't know the intricacies of exactly how it is done, however it was explained briefly to me by one of my bankers about 6 years ago. At that time, he said of lot of it had to do with the bank's internal policies.

For a fact, I did a business deal that was discovered to be fraudlent on the sellers side. Three days after the paperwork was signed and I wired money into the sellers account, my banker was able to pull the full funds out the sellers account.

I would never do a wire transfer for anything on ebay. In order for this seller to wire you the funds, he will need to know your banks routing number (ABA) number and your specific account number.

Just answer this question..Do you know this person well enough to give him your bank account numbers??

Also remember when doing anything internationally, the legal system is a whole different ball of wax. What's the odds of getting this guy into a small claims court if it came to that.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:05 PM
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Default RE: Any scams with wire transfers?

With a wire the risk is that you've got to give him your bank routing and account information.

You want to use an account that has nothing in it for that. As soon as the wire hits, you move the funds with a wire OUT to a different account.

Now if he tries to process a "demand draft" against your account (he can't wire out of it but he CAN try to process a demand draft!) there's nothing there and his attempt bounces.

If he tries to WIRE out and succeeds you can sue the crap out of the bank. They're 100% responsible if they take unauthenticated wire instructions!

The problem is on the demand draft side - banks SHOULD allow you to lock your account against those, but they don't. (A demand draft is basically an electronic check, no signature required.)
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

This a little off the subject but aren't there shipping companies who also handle the escrow?
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

There are tons of stories were banks do something they shouldn't have done and ultimately it is the account holder pays the price. Do not rely on your bank to fully protect you.

I have a dedicated account for my ebay transactions. I had to specifically tell them not to add any type of overdraft protection on that account. The local banker found that to be an unusual request since they offer complimentary od protection to all customers. Low and behold, since it was "out of the norm" somebody somewhere checked the wrong box on opening the account and I had a $2000 credit "od" protection associated with it. I did not find out about the mistake until I got my first statement and I had seen they did this. Needless to say, I was not too happy.

Answer this question for yourself. I'm sure its a nice car, but why does this guy from italy need to buy your car on ebay?

Go with your gut.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

As a follow-up, even if you could have an account set up with all the "securities" in place, this guy will still have an ABA and bank account number of yours. Those numbers will be connected to your name, address, social security number and possible even more things that you would imagine, like your driver's license number, maybe credit card information, passport number, etc,etc.

If you do sweep the account to another account, you should only do so by withdrawing the proceeds in cash and then making a cash deposit to the other account. Otherwise, if you do it electronically, there is now a trail from your "secure" account to another one of your bank accounts.

Have I scared you enough yet??

I'll stop my rant now. But I vote that you don't do it.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

I would be using a totally new, different account that has nothing in it; the account would be opened day of and then closed as soon as the money is transferred. At this point I don't care if he has my routing or account numbers; they are usless. And there would be no link to my other account numbers; it would be like linking your account with mine. Obviously, I won't be accepting any checks and then wiring any money back; I just can't see the reason why anyone would do that.

Since I listed the car I have been getting several attempts, and good ones at that, sent to my email address, to log into fake Ebay web pages and check out other items a buyer has said "looks like mine", or said that I listed. When I hover over the link, the address is normally just a plain IP address with an intricate .cgi file linking back to Ebay to gather username and password info; one was hosted in Asia and the other in Croatia. I kinda find it funny that they think I'm going to fall for that, but am impressed by how much time someone put into the.cgi file that will verify my account with ebay and then fwd that info back to their server. I tried signing in with a username of "F***you" and a password of "withacactus", and it bounces back from a link to the actual Ebay site. Very intersting.

Watch out out there.

I'll have to check into the demand draft return; When I did this a year or so ago selling another car, I asked my bank about it and they said once the money was wired to my account, it was confirmed, and it couldn't be withdrawn accept by me, so maybe its already covered by internal controls on my bank.

The way understand it, once the money is wired into and account(mine) and withdrawn (by me), it's gone, correct? t is verified by bank instantly, right?
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: Any scams with wire transfers?

I'm getting to know scams on Ebay. For instance, a guy last week was selling Penn 50VSW reels brand new with free shipping for $369.99. He had 100% positive feedback with 120 replies. I checked his replies...they were all for .01 cent purchases of E-books. I reported this to Ebay and his listing was pulled. Unfortunatley some folks bought into it.

Lately that 35 Carolina Classic, that sold last week on Ebay was listed again for $49k!!

I bought a Simrad AP26 on Ebay for $1900.00. Guy had 100% positive feedback.. He tried to scam me after I paid, he relisted it. Turns out he was a heroine addict. I tracked him down like a dog through his feedback. I sent messages to all those on his feedback list until someone responded. They all had a good experience with this guy until I called a Marina down in Fla. where he had some stuff shipped. Marina told me he and his wife were in reahab and they ripped him off on a boat he had built for them. Told me his lawyer was trying to settle with them. Needless to say I found his lawyer in Arizona who said he had the AP and would reimburse me or ship the AP......I took the AP....plus the shipping..

Although a wire in is easy to confirm through your bank and the Fed #....something doesn't sound right about this. This guy in Italy may have a way to get your ID this way.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

Ask your bank if you can open an account with the minimum balance and give him that number. Also see about an account that will accept wire tranfers but not allow money out by wire.

Unless your vessel is an investment grade yacht or collectible, I would tend to be leery of long distance inquiries.

Good luck!



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Old 03-15-2007, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

Ok, one more thing. The Patriot Act significantly changed the opening and closing of bank accounts. I don't know for sure, but I would bet my last buck, that a series of red flags will be raised by a bank account that is opened for one day, accepts an international wire transfer, money is moved out and then is closed. ALL IN THE SAME DAY.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

I sold a jeep to a guy in Texas last year. I opened up a new account at my credit union for about 2 hours; the money was wired in, I withdrew the money as cash and the bank account was permanently closed. No balance necessary. If it comes down to it, that's what i would be doing again.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

chrisjb - 3/15/2007 1:15 PM

There are tons of stories were banks do something they shouldn't have done and ultimately it is the account holder pays the price. Do not rely on your bank to fully protect you.

I have a dedicated account for my ebay transactions. I had to specifically tell them not to add any type of overdraft protection on that account. The local banker found that to be an unusual request since they offer complimentary od protection to all customers. Low and behold, since it was "out of the norm" somebody somewhere checked the wrong box on opening the account and I had a $2000 credit "od" protection associated with it. I did not find out about the mistake until I got my first statement and I had seen they did this. Needless to say, I was not too happy.

Answer this question for yourself. I'm sure its a nice car, but why does this guy from italy need to buy your car on ebay?

Go with your gut.
I don't know why he'd want to buy it; and really, I don't really care. I'm just concerned on getting my money. It is a collector car and there aren't many around, at least in this condition.

As far as the overdraft protection, as stated, i explained to my bank exactly what i was doing when i did this last year, and they seemed able to accomodate it without any issues. I guess my question still stands..once the money is wired and accepted as being valid, is there a way for it not to be? I'm not talking about cashiers checks, or anything else..just money being wire transferred into an account.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:53 PM
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Default RE: Any scams with wire transfers?

WEAKFISH - 3/15/2007 1:31 PM

Although a wire in is easy to confirm through your bank and the Fed #....something doesn't sound right about this. This guy in Italy may have a way to get your ID this way.
How? I'm just trying to figure a way around it?

It may be moot anyway; now that the price has reached a certain level, he doesn't seem interested.

I'm now more concerned about the new high bidder from kentucky who has 3 transactions and 1 of them he didn't pay.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

chrisjb - 3/15/2007 1:30 PM

As a follow-up, even if you could have an account set up with all the "securities" in place, this guy will still have an ABA and bank account number of yours. Those numbers will be connected to your name, address, social security number and possible even more things that you would imagine, like your driver's license number, maybe credit card information, passport number, etc,etc.

If you do sweep the account to another account, you should only do so by withdrawing the proceeds in cash and then making a cash deposit to the other account. Otherwise, if you do it electronically, there is now a trail from your "secure" account to another one of your bank accounts.

Have I scared you enough yet??

I'll stop my rant now. But I vote that you don't do it.
Without breaching my bank's security, how could he access the linked information to the closed account? And it seems like if he could get that info, he could get it wheteher I do any business with him or not?
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: Any scams with wire transfers?

Nope.

If you have a fed wire, its good.

Just get it out of there immediately because once he has your ABA routing data he CAN try to reach back into the account. In theory it SHOULD NOT WORK, but I wouldn't take that bet.
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Any scams with wire transfers?

Bitefish--that's what I'm thinking, but I'm always up to listen to new ideas.

I have been doing some checking and the guy has purchased other Jeeps over here (also what I am selling) and I am checking with the folks he has bought them from to see how that worked out. He has also ordered Jeep parts from some of the same people I have, and they gave him pos feedback.

There is a chance this guy might be legit.

But again, it's the guy from Kentucky (oops..Actually North Carolina) who is the high bidder right now who won't pay his bills that is bothering me. If he wins and doesn't pay, then I'm stuck for ~$100 listing fee.

Edit: Guy from NC is also bidding on 3 other jeeps right now.

Great! I think I trust the guy from Italy more!


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