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More Striper Regs Coming?

Old 03-08-2021, 07:07 AM
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Default More Striper Regs Coming?

Saw this in today's local paper : 10 Year Ban?

What does THT think?
Old 03-08-2021, 07:17 AM
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1. Designate Striped Bass as a gamefish and end the commercial harvest of these fish in all eastern states. This suggestion is for saltwater variants. Commercial harvest of freshwater (landlocked) may be feasible but I do not know.

2. Establish a 1 fish per angler retention limit and set the minimum length at 36”. This worked VERY well in the northeast back in the 80s and early 90s when the fish were last on the brink.

3. Circle hook requirement for all live bait with the exception of tube and worm when trolling.

4. Banning of all treble hooks when fishing in areas that striped bass may be present. It is not hard to change over from trebles to singles on plugs and a prohibition would drive manufacturers to supply single hooks as an option on new equipment.
Sent this in as my comments
Old 03-08-2021, 08:18 AM
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10 years ago I was an avid Spring Susky flats fishermen. 40-50# class fish on light tackle/top water, 100+ fish days. Every year the fish got bigger... boats everywhere, guides everywhere, TV shows being filmed.

Move away for 8 years, come back - no real fishery. No guides, no crowds, no numbers of big rock... my biggest fish in 2 years - 26". The fish, and more importantly -the bait, are not coming up to the pre spawn feeding areas.

This is all a C&R fishery & was considered the bellwether for the health of the species... along with the numbers of fish in the northern and southern portions of the migration ranges... which from all reports, have been in decline.

Bait from the main nursery, the Chesapeake) was decimated by the fish oil boats, constant pressure from anglers from end to end of the spawning run...

Something needs to change.

Old 03-08-2021, 08:41 AM
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This shows a massive amount of ignorance on the part of "Stripers Forever".

The real problem here is management for a single specie. It doesn't work and never will work. You will always have a huge resurgence followed by a huge crash. If you want sustained healthy populations of Striped Bass, you have to have both a healthy spawning and nursery area as well as biomass and food chain to support a healthy population of the fish. Past efforts have focused on managing only the Striped bass through moratoriums and limits. Populations surge until they reach a point where food supply crashes and then the whole population crashes. Striped bass are very closely linked to shad, herring, crab and menhaden stocks. Dams and impediments to these baitfish reaching their native and traditional spawning grounds are the key problem in restoring the Striper stocks to their previous glory days in a sustainable way. The James River and Roanoke Rivers are key to this effort. We should have shad and herring spawning all the way into the Shenandoah valley and the Appalachian Mtns. Instead, they are cut short of their native spawning reaches by dams. Do some historical research on shad and herring spawns in the Mid-Atlantic states and see what they used to be compared to what they are today.

When you remove or limit key components at the base of a food chain, collapse will occur up the chain. When there are not enough shad and herring to support the striper fishery, they begin to feed on crabs and other species which then cause further impact to other species such as menhaden. Something also needs to be done to curb the popularity of C&R fishing for these fish. Recent mortality rates for recreational fishing show dead discards actually exceeding recreational harvest. That's not sustainable either.
Old 03-08-2021, 08:43 AM
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here we go again....

I'm not telling you to do a search like some do here, i'm all for new threads, thoughts and new participation, but there are dozens of threads in the NE section. they get pretty spirited both ways.

but to answer your question 'What does THT think?'..... I think those that are passionate about it one way or the other should show up to the various council and fishery management meetings held numerous times a year, up and down the eastern seaboard and express your thoughts there. FWIW, the comm guys show up in force, every time. the rec guys? not so much.

Old 03-08-2021, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 1blueheron View Post
This shows a massive amount of ignorance on the part of "Stripers Forever".

The real problem here is management for a single specie. It doesn't work and never will work. You will always have a huge resurgence followed by a huge crash. If you want sustained healthy populations of Striped Bass, you have to have both a healthy spawning and nursery area as well as biomass and food chain to support a healthy population of the fish. Past efforts have focused on managing only the Striped bass through moratoriums and limits. Populations surge until they reach a point where food supply crashes and then the whole population crashes. Striped bass are very closely linked to shad, herring, crab and menhaden stocks. Dams and impediments to these baitfish reaching their native and traditional spawning grounds are the key problem in restoring the Striper stocks to their previous glory days in a sustainable way. The James River and Roanoke Rivers are key to this effort. We should have shad and herring spawning all the way into the Shenandoah valley and the Appalachian Mtns. Instead, they are cut short of their native spawning reaches by dams. Do some historical research on shad and herring spawns in the Mid-Atlantic states and see what they used to be compared to what they are today.

When you remove or limit key components at the base of a food chain, collapse will occur up the chain. When there are not enough shad and herring to support the striper fishery, they begin to feed on crabs and other species which then cause further impact to other species such as menhaden. Something also needs to be done to curb the popularity of C&R fishing for these fish. Recent mortality rates for recreational fishing show dead discards actually exceeding recreational harvest. That's not sustainable either.
You left out Omega fish oil that rapes (they may be shut down now) the mouth of the bay of all the above bait species. They don't even have a chance to make it into the rivers to spawn...

We can't have a herring on board our boat for bait or to eat (yes, lotta fellers round here eat them), but Omega was able to fly over the schools and net them all up at will.
Old 03-08-2021, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 1blueheron View Post
Something also needs to be done to curb the popularity of C&R fishing for these fish.
Nobody has ever been able to explain why striped bass in the mid atlantic is the only fishery in the world where C&R is considered bad.

(yes, I know the reason is that the people who run the show don't get money from C&R fishing, but they won't admit it in public)
Old 03-08-2021, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jughed View Post
You left out Omega fish oil that rapes (they may be shut down now) the mouth of the bay of all the above bait species. They don't even have a chance to make it into the rivers to spawn...

We can't have a herring on board our boat for bait or to eat (yes, lotta fellers round here eat them), but Omega was able to fly over the schools and net them all up at will.
I was thinking the same thing. The stripers were so thick 10 years back and I don't re-call any new dams that would have affected spawning. Some common sense would also help. I know the commercial guys in NC were netting stripers and selectively picking out the big fish then dumping dead stripers back into the water. They didn't want to waste a tag on a small striper. This may have changed in resent years.
Old 03-08-2021, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jughed View Post
10 years ago I was an avid Spring Susky flats fishermen. 40-50# class fish on light tackle/top water, 100+ fish days. Every year the fish got bigger... boats everywhere, guides everywhere, TV shows being filmed.

Move away for 8 years, come back - no real fishery. No guides, no crowds, no numbers of big rock... my biggest fish in 2 years - 26". The fish, and more importantly -the bait, are not coming up to the pre spawn feeding areas.

This is all a C&R fishery & was considered the bellwether for the health of the species... along with the numbers of fish in the northern and southern portions of the migration ranges... which from all reports, have been in decline.

Bait from the main nursery, the Chesapeake) was decimated by the fish oil boats, constant pressure from anglers from end to end of the spawning run...

Something needs to change.
you and I probably crossed paths many times on the flats.. in the late 90s and early 2000ís it was an epic fishery. As we passed the mid 2000 the numbers started the fall and then the mass kill/culling that happened in NC in the late 2000 put the nail in the coffin .. the flats were no longer even worth fishing, same with CBBT in the fall...the big NC Kill did huge damage to the breeder ages fish. Then the omega 3 boats put a beating on their food chain. It was a a double whammy...Iím all for a 10 year moratorium. I understand the other posters comments on dams and such but that isnít the cause. The Susquehanna is the largest spawning grounds for striped bass in the world followed by the Hudson River. Smaller rivers like the James have near no effect on the breeding grounds. From DE north we donít really have any other gamefish to target with exception of blue fish which are more an annoyance. Iíve already accepted that Iíll likely not live long enough to see another time like the hay day of the flats unless there is a moratorium. For many anglers itís become so bad that owning a boat anymore is hard to justify.
Old 03-08-2021, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fowlhook View Post
you and I probably crossed paths many times on the flats.. in the late 90s and early 2000’s it was an epic fishery. As we passed the mid 2000 the numbers started the fall and then the mass kill/culling that happened in NC in the late 2000 put the nail in the coffin .. the flats were no longer even worth fishing, same with CBBT in the fall...the big NC Kill did huge damage to the breeder ages fish. Then the omega 3 boats put a beating on their food chain. It was a a double whammy...I’m all for a 10 year moratorium. I understand the other posters comments on dams and such but that isn’t the cause. The Susquehanna is the largest spawning grounds for striped bass in the world followed by the Hudson River. Smaller rivers like the James have near no effect on the breeding grounds. From DE north we don’t really have any other gamefish to target with exception of blue fish which are more an annoyance. I’ve already accepted that I’ll likely not live long enough to see another time like the hay day of the flats unless there is a moratorium. For many anglers it’s become so bad that owning a boat anymore is hard to justify.
What was the big NC kill? I can remember nights at the CBBT where You could catch a striper with every cast. We would flatten the barbs and use light tackle and have a blast.
Old 03-08-2021, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
Nobody has ever been able to explain why striped bass in the mid atlantic is the only fishery in the world where C&R is considered bad.

(yes, I know the reason is that the people who run the show don't get money from C&R fishing, but they won't admit it in public)
I think they have been studying this for at least 40 years. Basically, lactic acid buildup during the fight. Saltwater, low temps=no problem. Low salinity, higher temps= high mortality rates. Very comprehensive study here that cites previous research:

https://www.monmouth.edu/uci/documen...se-report.pdf/
Old 03-08-2021, 09:53 AM
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We have figured this problem out here in NC. You see, we (the taxpayers) pay ~$30/lb to stock the Cape Fear/Neuse/Pamlico rivers. We then let the commercials harvest said fish and sell them to the public for ~$3/lb. Then next year, we do it all over again!
Old 03-08-2021, 10:14 AM
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Y'all still don't get it. I didn't say that the dams effect stripers spawning. I said they effect baitfish spawning which then in turn effects the number/size of the striper that can be supported in the waters before stock numbers completely crash.

Yes, Omega boats do not help the situation, however, for many years, the menhaden fishery sustained as much or more pressure than they currently do. Back to my point, you cannot manage for a single specie.

When you start to study fisheries, you have to approach them holistically. What is the impact of a target stock number on the food chain as a whole?

We all need to detach ourselves from agendas and emotions and ask what is the big picture and how do we best achieve a long term sustained population for all parties involved. Technology has changed over the years. The internet, cellphones, GPS, faster boats, better nets, improved tackle, aerial spotters, etc. We need to be mindful of our capabilities as Apex predators, how technology has made us more deadly, and efficient at finding and catching fish, and behave accordingly. I am not going to castigate anyone for catching a few stripers for fun and putting them back in good condition, but to consistently target them day after day with no intent to harvest, or in a recreational C&R fishery for profit would not be any more prudent in my opinion than allowing for a commercial net fishery that targets them for profit. IMHO, it would be much better to combine the two and make a commercial rod and reel fishery where the large demand for high quality table fish can be filled by rod and reel fishermen, eliminating the need for a commercial net fishery without putting people out of business or establishing moratoriums.

At the same time, old dams that have impeded bait-fish from spawning need to be removed or bypassed to restore spawning habitat so that the food chain can support and sustain more sportfish, not just stripers but also weakfish, flounder, bluefish, mackeral, cobia, etc.
Old 03-08-2021, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Striperk9 View Post
I think they have been studying this for at least 40 years. Basically, lactic acid buildup during the fight. Saltwater, low temps=no problem. Low salinity, higher temps= high mortality rates. Very comprehensive study here that cites previous research:

https://www.monmouth.edu/uci/documen...se-report.pdf/
I'm very familiar with all these studies. I'm also very familiar with how my state is misusing these studies to justify restricting C&R.
Old 03-08-2021, 10:44 AM
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Embry dam was removed on the Rappahannock and Bosher on the James put in a fish ladder. They partially removed a section of Little Falls Dam on the Potomac.

More needs to be done but a lot of these low head dams are getting the boot or being modified.

I agree with others, bring the bait back and the stripers will thrive. It also doesn't help that the blue cats are eating everything in sight but that likely impacts the non-migratory stripers.
Old 03-08-2021, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by fishingfun View Post
What was the big NC kill? I can remember nights at the CBBT where You could catch a striper with every cast. We would flatten the barbs and use light tackle and have a blast.
back around 2010 we had an unusually warm fall and stripers headed well in to NC in number. The commercial fishery decimated the fish. I remember literally miles of dead stripers floating. Some friend flew private planes over and took video. It was sickening. I believe they had a 50 fish limit, would net thousands, keep the biggest 50 and through the rest back dead. That kinda limit should be hook and line. Lots of corruption in the NC commercial fishery at that time.

Thousands of Striped Bass are Being Slaughtered in ?Culling? Operations - OBX Surf Info : OBX Surf Info

https://www.saltwatersportsman.com/n...ter-continues/

https://www.carolinasportsman.com/fishing/offshore-fishing/oregon-inlet-striper-massacre-occurs-during-trawler-hauls/

Last edited by fowlhook; 03-08-2021 at 10:52 AM.
Old 03-08-2021, 10:51 AM
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It's just a matter of time. I'm afraid we're headed for a long period of catch and release only in FL - all gamefish species.

Not what I want, but 1k people a day moving here, clearing land and building houses, eating, making doo doo, fertilizing lawns, driving, boating and... fishing. Something's gotta give.
Old 03-08-2021, 03:29 PM
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I'm totally against a 10 year moratorium. . And who are Stripers Forever, they don't reveal themselves.

AFSME doesn't listen to anyone. They pretend to listen then tell us what they decided, prior to their pretend gatherings.
Old 03-08-2021, 04:12 PM
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I don't see how keeping the trophy season open the last several years has helped at all. Also charter boats having a two fish per person limit is BS follow the money
Old 03-08-2021, 05:44 PM
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Boy did I read the title wrong at first.
Was wondering what I was going to do with all my one dollar bills..

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