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Microsoft VISTA and Boating

Old 02-02-2007, 02:27 AM
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Default Microsoft VISTA and Boating

Since LuckyLaRue’s MS Vista thread degenerated into an Apple vs a real computer debate, I figured I'd post this in its own thread.

From Panbo.com:

MS Vista, a marine PC train wreck?

So this morning an acquaintance who sells and services laptops and peripherals to cruisers gives me a buzz. He’d rather not be identified (and don’t bother guessing, cause I know lots of guys like this), but he was some agitated: “This is a train wreck! This is going to shake up the whole marine PC world!” He was ranting about Microsoft’s new Vista operating system, and specifically the new “security feature” whereby it will not accept hardware drivers unless they are Microsoft Certified. Well, now, just yesterday I installed an older Deluo USB GPS on a tablet computer I’m trying, and I had to check a box saying that I understood that the driver is not Microsoft Certified, something I’ve done many times.

Apparently this GPS will be useless with Vista, and a small company like Deluo will need to fork over $40,000 minimum to get that driver Certification. Interfacing is the soft, weak underbelly of marine computing, what with all sorts of little developers making sensors, multiplexers, SSB modems, sat. phone data connections, weatherfax demodulators, etc. etc. that wire into PCs, whereas most computer users only plug in a few items, all of which are manufactured in huge volume. And as of about today, you’ll have a hard time finding a new PC that isn’t running Vista, though even a fairly high profile device like the new Globalstar GSP 1700 sat phone, supposedly superior in all ways to its predecessors, is not “certified” for Vista hook-up, and hence data comms. That’s whats got my friend so riled up that he’s spending time at sites like BadVista.org, the folks who have been harassing MicroSoft’s Vista tour, often humorously (above). So I’m hoping that the many Panbo readers who develop and/or install marine PC apps will now speak up here about what’s working, and what isn’t.


http://www.panbo.com

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And from the Trawlers and Trawling list:

One issue for the marine enviroment is that VISTA needs an internet
connection to validate the installation.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...uirements.mspx

There are also reports surfacing on the message boards, that if VISTA loses
connectivity to the Net, it will start to shutdown after a period of time.

Personally I have no need with XP being supported till 2014 to switch, but
if I do it will be after the inevitable service pack 1 release.


http://lists.samurai.com/pipermail/t...ry/114482.html

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If VISTA is really what they are saying it is, that it will not load and run software not certified by MS, I can guarantee another class action lawsuit against MS is coming. They are essentially now doing with their operating system what they got nailed for doing with Internet Explorer.

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Old 02-02-2007, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Microsoft VISTA and Boating

Plus, once you install Vista, it DECERTIFIES your old OS and you can't reload it. Plus you can't play internet games on it (so I'm told). Plus it can cost you up to $500. Plus you can't tell which version you really can use on your old machine until you buy it and try to install it.

Otherwise, it's fine, I guess.
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Microsoft VISTA and Boating

Eyeball, I can pretty safely figure that you are referring to me when you say the thread "degenerated into an Apple vs a real computer debate".. I think you misinterpreted and my apologies.

One thing I can say is this, this thread completely backs up what I was saying and why my search for a new PC is now more open ended as far as OS's are concerned..

Thanks for the info above..
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Microsoft VISTA and Boating

So, you have 7 to 10 years to go before XP will start losing support. Don't use Vista.

I have machines that are running Windows 2000 without any issues. Yes, these are very specific commercial apps (don't ask, it's Secret Sh!t ), but I should think that you won't be forced onto Vista any time soon.



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Old 02-02-2007, 12:15 PM
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And don't get fooled into buying Office 2007, either. Documents created in Word 2007 are NOT ".doc" files, and if you mail them to people, they won't be able to open them. More brilliance.
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Microsoft VISTA and Boating

besides Apple, what are the current and near future options for OS's?
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:58 PM
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t3rockhall - 2/2/2007 12:15 PM

And don't get fooled into buying Office 2007, either. Documents created in Word 2007 are NOT ".doc" files, and if you mail them to people, they won't be able to open them. More brilliance.
That's not exactly true; you can save documents you create in Word 2003 format. This same thing happened when Office moved from Win 3.11 to Win 95, and again later, from Office 97 to 2000. Many software programs do this..like Autocad from ver 12 to 14 to 2k5.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Microsoft VISTA and Boating

And yet another, as expected, change in the mis-information above:

from Panbo.com:

Well, it turns out that my verklempt (definition) marine PC buddy didn’t have his facts right. Apparently Microsoft’s fee for driver certification is actually in the 2–3 grand range, and is waived entirely until May! Also, the new Globalstar 1700 satellite phone I mentioned will be Vista certified, and so will the older 1600.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:09 PM
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t3rockhall - 2/2/2007 8:19 AM

Plus, once you install Vista, it DECERTIFIES your old OS and you can't reload it. Plus you can't play internet games on it (so I'm told). Plus it can cost you up to $500. Plus you can't tell which version you really can use on your old machine until you buy it and try to install it.

Otherwise, it's fine, I guess.
huh? Decertifies and can't reload it? What? I have a disk, I have an install number..I can reload it. And why would you want to do an inplace, over the old O/S upgrade anyway? I assume that is what you are talking about--doing an inplace upgrade; and if so--and it does decertify your old one and make the registration number unusable--that makes sense. Once you upgrade just about any software, you're not supposed to be also be using the old software as concurrently.

And I would check the features on any O/S before I bought so I would know what to buy; I don't know the costs, but it sounds as though the $500 you quoted is for the Ultimate version, which also includes some pretty heavy movie making software.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:41 PM
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I see. Upgrades always work better than the old versions, so you wouldn't have any need to want to go back to the previous version (say, to run apps that don't work under the new one), even though you paid for that old version out of your own pocket. Makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for explaining it.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:47 PM
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t3rockhall - 2/2/2007 1:41 PM

I see. Upgrades always work better than the old versions, so you wouldn't have any need to want to go back to the previous version (say, to run apps that don't work under the new one), even though you paid for that old version out of your own pocket. Makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for explaining it.
I typically investigate whether my apps, if that important, would work or not before upgrading; I guess you would not.
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Old 02-02-2007, 02:52 PM
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ReelWork - 2/3/2007 8:25 AM

Eyeball, I can pretty safely figure that you are referring to me when you say the thread "degenerated into an Apple vs a real computer debate"...
Don’t be silly. You don’t command that much attention around here.

I meant for it to be tongue-in-cheek; “Apple vs a real computer” … as if Apple wasn’t a real computer. I was hoping to incite the Apple-cores, I mean Apple-heads, or whatever you call those silly people that irrationally buy anything Apple-ware. But hey! This thread is about V I S T A … not Apple.

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My thinking is the same as Snapper’s, why do I need to bother with VISTA at all if XP is going to be supported for at least another 7-years?!? (Al Gore said global warming will kill everyone by then anyways.) Maybe some new technology will come along and support for it will only be in VISTA and above, but until that happens… And when it does happen I think I will be looking toward Linux as a possible solution. I’m already thinking in that direction.

Fwiw, IBM/Lenovo support is saying to stay away from VISTA for the time being. Of bigger concern is what to do about Daylight Savings Time this spring/year??? Oh, you haven’t heard about that ... yet???
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Old 02-02-2007, 02:58 PM
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Eyeball - 2/2/2007 2:52 PM

ReelWork - 2/3/2007 8:25 AM

Eyeball, I can pretty safely figure that you are referring to me when you say the thread "degenerated into an Apple vs a real computer debate"...
Don’t be silly. You don’t command that much attention around here.

I meant for it to be tongue-in-cheek; “Apple vs a real computer” … as if Apple wasn’t a real computer. I was hoping to incite the Apple-cores, I mean Apple-heads, or whatever you call those silly people that irrationally buy anything Apple-ware. But hey! This thread is about V I S T A … not Apple.

--------

My thinking is the same as Snapper’s, why do I need to bother with VISTA at all if XP is going to be supported for at least another 7-years?!? (Al Gore said global warming will kill everyone by then anyways.) Maybe some new technology will come along and support for it will only be in VISTA and above, but until that happens… And when it does happen I think I will be looking toward Linux as a possible solution. I’m already thinking in that direction.

Fwiw, IBM/Lenovo support is saying to stay away from VISTA for the time being. Of bigger concern is what to do about Daylight Savings Time this spring/year??? Oh, you haven’t heard about that ... yet???
XP seems pretty stable; I can't think of a good reason to upgrade unless you just have to have the newest shiniest object out there.

As for DST..there's a patch available for that..as is there for Unix, Linux, HP-UX, and I imagine, the Apple desktop of linux.

And I've been wondering...how will the nuclear winter that will come after Iran bombs us affect global warming?
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Old 02-02-2007, 05:43 PM
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Apple-bats?


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Old 02-02-2007, 05:47 PM
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Snapper Head - 2/2/2007 4:43 PM

Apple-bats?


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Now that made me laugh.
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Old 02-02-2007, 05:50 PM
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redneck joe - 2/2/2007 4:47 PM

Snapper Head - 2/2/2007 4:43 PM

Apple-bats?


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Old 02-02-2007, 06:11 PM
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No, THIS'LL make you laugh:

Gates: I'm a PC and I'm not amused
February 2, 2007 11:18 AM PST
Bill Gates apparently doesn't see much humor in Apple's "Mac vs. PC" ads.

In an interview with Newsweek, the Microsoft chairman defends the Windows-using masses.

"I don't think the over 90 percent of the (population) who use Windows PCs think of themselves as dullards, or the kind of klutzes that somebody is trying to say they are," he said.

He also takes umbrage at the notion that upgrading to Vista amounts to major surgery.

"Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done," Gates told the magazine. "You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade."

He also argues the PC now has a leg up on the Mac when it comes to security.

"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day," Gates said. "Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:13 PM
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Eyeball - 2/2/2007 3:52 PM
I meant for it to be tongue-in-cheek; “Apple vs a real computer” … as if Apple wasn’t a real computer. I was hoping to incite the Apple-cores, I mean Apple-heads, or whatever you call those silly people that irrationally buy anything Apple-ware. But hey! This thread is about V I S T A … not Apple.
Yeah, I saw it on the first post, but lately, I just sit back and watch Micro$oft implode. There server upgrades are nothing short of extorsion, and their certification process IS extorsion. I'm not saying it is going to happen anytime soon, but they are losing market share daily, will it take 5 years, maybe, but one thing is for certain, alot of people are tired of the same old crap that doesn't work.
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Old 02-02-2007, 06:29 PM
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Just to agree with what others have said--avoid Vista like the plague. It doesn't offer anything substantive over XP, it's slower, has higher HW requirements, and obviously a lot of driver issues.

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Old 02-02-2007, 07:06 PM
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Somethin-Fishey - 2/2/2007 6:13 PM

Eyeball - 2/2/2007 3:52 PM
I meant for it to be tongue-in-cheek; “Apple vs a real computer” … as if Apple wasn’t a real computer. I was hoping to incite the Apple-cores, I mean Apple-heads, or whatever you call those silly people that irrationally buy anything Apple-ware. But hey! This thread is about V I S T A … not Apple.
Yeah, I saw it on the first post, but lately, I just sit back and watch Micro$oft implode. There server upgrades are nothing short of extorsion, and their certification process IS extorsion. I'm not saying it is going to happen anytime soon, but they are losing market share daily, will it take 5 years, maybe, but one thing is for certain, alot of people are tired of the same old crap that doesn't work.
Until Apple makes a server, and uses hardware that they aren't extorting to the consumer ...don't expect to see it anytime soon.

As for Apple exploits mentioned above...this is kinda interesting:

SANS notes sharp increase in Mac OS X flaws

http://www.computerworld.com/action/...ticleId=111047
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