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Old 10-23-2020, 05:28 PM
  #21  
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get a firm price for the trust sometimes the cost doubles
Old 10-24-2020, 08:33 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by mbb View Post
Dont do it.
Worst advice my dad ever got was to set up a trust to provide for my mom's care when he died.
It tied our hands, it limited our access to funds. When needed. My uncle had to give us over $100,000 to bridge gaps when we couldn't get money.

It changes tax implications for heirs. It requires everyones signatures. Bit of trouble if they don't all live at the right place..... And.....investment companies will try and steal the money if they can figure out a way to not pay it. They will fight you on payouts.... of your money. Even after court orders.... They were hoping my mother would die.....

If you can't trust your kids, then you got pretty shitty kids..... Or you're just a fool.

An attorney is the last person you want to talk to. Imo. That's where my dad got his horrible advice.

Put it in dual accounts in both your names that they can withdraw money from and let them withdraw from it when they want to..... No paperwork..... No governmental oversight. No signatures of everybody. No Powers of attorney.

a trust is also part of your estate if you set it up when you die....subject to probate and creditors........and it's not that hard to die owing a million dollars in medical expenses.

You might say but I'm healthy.....well you also might get covidd tomorrow and be in ICU for two months, or be hit by a bus and be on life support for 3 years.... You just don't ever know.

And you'd also don't know how much money you're ever going to need until you die. Two people in nursing homes for 10 years adds up......$2mm. you go on Medicare after your assets are exhausted..... But you get to keep your house it becomes part of your estate after you die. If there are no bills then your kids get it.




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Good kids can make financial mistakes and blow through an inheritance intended for other purposes. Doesn’t make them shitty people, just irresponsible. Hence a trust.

My college education (as well as sister and cousins’) was funded by a trust created from my paternal grandfather’s estate. It was administered by a great aunt and we each got $xx. Any funds not spent on school were held in the trust until each of us turns 35, at which time the money is dispersed as a lump sum. I spent all of mine because I took a little extra time but everyone else will get a hefty chunk of cash in a few years. It worked really well in our case and I sure as shit couldn’t have been trusted with that much money at 18.
Old 10-24-2020, 10:50 AM
  #23  
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These type of trusts are not one size fits all.....

Just do it right ...use a well established and highly regarded Law firm... don't cheap out. Do it right. Pay for it. Equals ease of mind.
Old 10-24-2020, 12:06 PM
  #24  
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Default I was in CT and am now in FL

We elected to put our assets (with the exception of tax advantaged assets - 401K, etc) in a revocable trust. The main reason was to avoid probate, which can be expensive and time consuming. I have a house in CT and a CT floating concrete boat slip in the Florida trust. I also have Florida rental property, our Florida house and brokerage accounts in that same trust.

Upon my death, the trustee (named in advance) takes over the assets and handles them according to the trust instructions. That trustee writes checks, collects rents and handles all assets. I can change disbursement change instructions with a handwritten note in the trust documents (no witnesses required). This Florida trust is recognized by all US states. Our CT properties will suffer no estate tax or fees, because the owner (the trust) does not change when I die. There is no probate in FL except for the tax advantaged accounts, which have beneficiaries declared.

All the banks need when I die is a copy of the death certificate. They already have the trust documents on file for the various accounts, which name the trustee(s).

Total worth has to be less than 11 million for this type of trust.

This allows us to pass New England properties to our heirs control with no state estate tax and fees.

This doesn't work for foreign countries. My waterfront cottage in Canada had to have a separate will as did our house in Brittany, France.

Check with a good lawyer before doing anything. A trust can be used to simplify estates for your heirs.



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Old 10-24-2020, 07:29 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by king_me View Post
I guess your state(CT?) laws are a lot different then the state where my parents live(MN). I've talked to lawyers and financial advisors regarding this and the assets defined in their trust are not protected from health care liabilities. There is some sort of complex annuity plan that can be setup but it didn't make sense with my fathers current health condition. I would talk to a professional about your situation.
It really depends on the type of trust. If it is merely a fake piece of paper trying to avoid liability then it is worthless. A bad lawyer could write a trust that makes the same person the originator, holder and beneficiary of the trust. It is meaningless. But if a trust is set up so the originator no longer has any control over the contents of the trust then it is likely that originator's debts would not be paid by trust assets. It could have been the time period was not made clear. You cannot set up a trust, die the next day and avoid liabilities. Just like you cannot gift your buddy all your money, get divorced the next day and not have to give half to your former spouse. Look back periods are important to make sure there is no funny business going on. If you set up a trust and fund it with assets including real estate and five years pass then the law does not think you were making some quick scheme to defraud the system. Long term schemes seem to be acceptable though. Haha
Old 10-24-2020, 08:09 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mbb View Post
Dont do it.
Worst advice my dad ever got was to set up a trust to provide for my mom's care when he died.
It tied our hands, it limited our access to funds. When needed. My uncle had to give us over $100,000 to bridge gaps when we couldn't get money.

It changes tax implications for heirs. It requires everyones signatures. Bit of trouble if they don't all live at the right place..... And.....investment companies will try and steal the money if they can figure out a way to not pay it. They will fight you on payouts.... of your money. Even after court orders.... They were hoping my mother would die.....

If you can't trust your kids, then you got pretty shitty kids..... Or you're just a fool.

An attorney is the last person you want to talk to. Imo. That's where my dad got his horrible advice.

Put it in dual accounts in both your names that they can withdraw money from and let them withdraw from it when they want to..... No paperwork..... No governmental oversight. No signatures of everybody. No Powers of attorney.

a trust is also part of your estate if you set it up when you die....subject to probate and creditors........and it's not that hard to die owing a million dollars in medical expenses.

You might say but I'm healthy.....well you also might get covidd tomorrow and be in ICU for two months, or be hit by a bus and be on life support for 3 years.... You just don't ever know.

And you'd also don't know how much money you're ever going to need until you die. Two people in nursing homes for 10 years adds up......$2mm. you go on Medicare after your assets are exhausted..... But you get to keep your house it becomes part of your estate after you die. If there are no bills then your kids get it.


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Talk to an attorney.

There are multiple bits of bad advice and some things not true in this comment.

Changes tax implications? Not necessarily

Everyone’s signatures? Only the trustee

Investment companies try to steal your money? Huh what?? And what would that have to do with a trust?

Put it in dual accounts? I’m assuming you mean “joint.” But this is also terrible advice for many possible reasons. Gift tax, 5 yr look back for Medicaid, loss of cost basis step up, not protected for lawsuits......

Powers of Attorney are a great thing to have in case you become incapacitated.

Everything is part of your estate.

A trust is NOT subject to probate.

You go on “medicaid” not “Medicare” when your assets are exhausted.


To the OP, again, talk to a good attorney you trust (pun intended). But in reality, if you trust your kids, want to give them things right out, then what do you need a trust for? Trusts are typically when you want a bunch of rules attached or have an estate tax issue or are trying to do something very specific (health care trust, special needs trust, life insurance trust, or various trusts for charity).

If just wanting to give X to person Y, a trust just complicates things unnecessarily.
Old 10-25-2020, 03:32 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
five years pass then the law does not think you were making some quick scheme to defraud the system. Long term schemes seem to be acceptable though. Haha
If 5 years is the key to sheltering assets from liabilities I guess my parents are SOL. With his advanced stage of Lewy Body dementia right now I think he will be lucky to survive another 2 years.

If the '5 year rule' applies in their state(MN), I'm surprised it was never brought up with my fathers estate lawyers and financial advisors. They have an option to setup some form of a annuity that would add some protection for the assets. I just can't see them spending the money in legal and other fees to set it up at this point.
Old 10-25-2020, 03:37 AM
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My state is FL. You are correct about healthcare liabilities, 5 years have to pass at which point the federal government will no longer go after houses and accounts in the trust for healthcare liability. The trust is only a legal fiction, but every single state must accept another state's trusts conditions. The interstate commerce rules apply here. The concept is that the trust never dies, thus no probate must be done and assets are passed on to heirs who become trustees, not owners.
Old 10-25-2020, 03:45 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
The trustee would be one of the children. We totally trust them all. No family issues. Just thinking of maybe adding some of my money into it and/or letting them take out for emergency or education for their kids before we die. Will be talking to the attorney next week about this - just want to make sure my kids don't have to go through lawyers or have any other extraordinary hassles to get at it. The whole idea is we don't want to be a burden on the in any way as we age

Thanks for answering
Things can change....
Old 10-25-2020, 06:13 AM
  #30  
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My parents set up a trust. Frankly they didn’t move enough into it as my mom has too much exposed. Moms still alive, my oldest brother (62) is the trustee. If she needed funds my brother would provide them. Easy peasy. Im not talking life changing money here but a pretty good nut for a mid 80’s widow.

The funds are with an investment advisor a couple family members use. He may have set up the trust, I don’t get involved unless asked.

Write down all all your questions as you come up with them and speak to your attorney. Putting aside complex estate and tax planning this stuff is pretty straight forward for an attorney.

Old 10-25-2020, 06:17 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by king_me View Post
If 5 years is the key to sheltering assets from liabilities I guess my parents are SOL. With his advanced stage of Lewy Body dementia right now I think he will be lucky to survive another 2 years.

If the '5 year rule' applies in their state(MN), I'm surprised it was never brought up with my fathers estate lawyers and financial advisors. They have an option to setup some form of a annuity that would add some protection for the assets. I just can't see them spending the money in legal and other fees to set it up at this point.
Don’t know what the cost of probate is, but planning is as much about asset transfer as it is asset protection.
Old 10-25-2020, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by king_me View Post
If 5 years is the key to sheltering assets from liabilities I guess my parents are SOL. With his advanced stage of Lewy Body dementia right now I think he will be lucky to survive another 2 years.

If the '5 year rule' applies in their state(MN), I'm surprised it was never brought up with my fathers estate lawyers and financial advisors. They have an option to setup some form of a annuity that would add some protection for the assets. I just can't see them spending the money in legal and other fees to set it up at this point.
There are still other things you may be able to do to protect their assets and qualify for Medicaid.

It’s another example of “there’s an expert for everything, just have to talk to the right one.”

Elder law attorneys may be able to do just that.

A few example strategies (in Florida at least):

A certain amount of assets can go to the spouse.

Some assets can be turned into “income” and be considered as such rather than an asset.

Health care trusts can be set up and can pay the family income for caring for an elderly parent.

No limit to “gifting” assets to an adult disabled child.

...... just a few off the top of my head. But talk to a professional.
Old 10-25-2020, 11:35 AM
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Avoiding probate is the key. When my dad passed, most of his estate was in a trust but there were a small handful of assets that were not. Getting those items transferred thru probate was a real PITA. The assets in the trust, for the most part, were a breeze.

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