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Defund the Police - Serious Question

Old 06-19-2020, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nole76 View Post
So you have to go back 60-80 years to find your examples?
No you don't have to look back that far, I was trying to think of examples that could be within the life times of folks living today that we can all agree were wrong, they were codified in law, and enforced by police thusly dealing with criminals. Current examples tend to involve more emotion and taint the discussion. It also helps keep it non-political.
Old 06-19-2020, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KJS View Post
Totally agreed. You are the one that brought it up.?
Reading comprehension isnt your thing, is it?? I brought it up?? I think it was clear, I was making fun of another poster..... obviously that escaped you..
Old 06-19-2020, 06:43 PM
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
Bunch of BS..... I have never arrested someone that did not commit a crime nor have I seen anyone arrested that did not commit a crime..

The REAL PROBLEM is we have a society that thinks they can question authority and resist arrest.... Most all uses of force involve resisting suspects and are justified....

The narrative is false..
So you have a 100% conviction rate? Meaning that nobody you ever arrested was found not guilty or had charges dropped by the ag or da?
Old 06-19-2020, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
Reading comprehension isnt your thing, is it?? I brought it up?? I think it was clear, I was making fun of another poster..... obviously that escaped you..
Are you drinking again?
Old 06-19-2020, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
Bunch of BS..... I have never arrested someone that did not commit a crime nor have I seen anyone arrested that did not commit a crime..

The REAL PROBLEM is we have a society that thinks they can question authority and resist arrest.... Most all uses of force involve resisting suspects and are justified....The

The narrative is false..
News flash...you and your peers are not the arbitors of crime. That's handled by the judicial system.

And the "authority" argument is part of the problem too. I think most LEO's are trained that they are the Big Man on Campus when interacting with the average Joe; They are in a position of "authority". They are if the average Joe breaks a law but too many cops know know f'all about the law but only what comes from their command.


Old 06-19-2020, 07:39 PM
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I'm cuban and I support Donald Trump, **** communism, **** socialism, and I don't care about the race,I'd rather be dead instead of going back to communism
Old 06-19-2020, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KJS View Post
Are you drinking again?
You smoking meth again?
Old 06-19-2020, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Qb1rdman View Post
News flash...you and your peers are not the arbitors of crime. That's handled by the judicial system.

And the "authority" argument is part of the problem too. I think most LEO's are trained that they are the Big Man on Campus when interacting with the average Joe; They are in a position of "authority". They are if the average Joe breaks a law but too many cops know know f'all about the law but only what comes from their command.
You are "thinking again" that gets you in trouble..

Unfortunately for people like you, a major part of a LEO's job is to enforce the law.. People dont call us to say hello. We dont stop people to say Hi.. Most officers know what they can or can not do but there are exceptions. Course there are more rude people, like yourself and more people that want to argue and resist when doing something wrong.... It is not about being the "Big Man" on campus, it is about doing our job. Just remember times are changing and it is my guess that some LEOs will be doing less due to current affairs...So enjoy, hope it works out for people like you..
Old 06-19-2020, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jersus View Post
So you have a 100% conviction rate? Meaning that nobody you ever arrested was found not guilty or had charges dropped by the ag or da?
Guess this is too difficult a question for cracker to answer.
Old 06-19-2020, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by omeris View Post
I'm cuban and I support Donald Trump, **** communism, **** socialism, and I don't care about the race,I'd rather be dead instead of going back to communism
Old 06-19-2020, 08:25 PM
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No surprise here!

https://nypost.com/2020/06/19/nyc-sh...nit-disbanded/

Shootings are surging this week in New York City, with 28 incidents and 38 victims reported since Monday — the day the NYPD disbanded its plainclothes anti-crime unit, The Post learned on Friday.

By comparison, the same week last year there were only 12 shootings for the entire week.

In the most recent reported shooting, at 4 p.m. Friday in East New York, Brooklyn, a 27-year-old man died of multiple gunshot wounds to his torso, face and leg in front of 640 Stanley Avenue.

A 17-year-old boy who was also shot there was in stable condition, police said.

“This is what the politicians wanted — no bail, nobody in Rikers, cops not arresting anyone,” one angry law enforcement source said Friday.

“All those things equal people walking around on the street with guns, shooting each other.”

The shooting spree includes at least five murders, sources told The Post.

One murder happened Monday at 10 p.m. on Franklin Avenue in The Bronx, where a 34-year-old man was fatally shot in the back and hip; a second shooting victim at that scene was hospitalized.De Blasio says cops should stay in schools to protect kids, in contrast to his police commissioner
There was another slaying early Wednesday outside a Brooklyn party, where a well-liked Queens-based DJ, Jomo Glasgow, 35, was fatally shot in the torso in front of a house party on East 49th Street near Snyder Avenue.

The dying victim had managed to drag himself around the block before collapsing, police said. A second victim, a man in his 30s, was shot in the buttocks outside the same party.

Members of the NYPD’s anti-crime unit were reassigned to uniformed patrol duties on Monday — part of what Police Commissioner Dermot Shea called a “seismic” shift affecting some 600 cops.

The unit’s disbanding comes almost six years after one of its plainclothes cops killed Eric Garner with a chokehold, sparking the “I can’t breathe” rallying cry for police brutality protesters.
The week’s shootings include an incident from 3 a.m. Wednesday in Jamaica, Queens. A 29-year-old man there suffered a graze wound to the chest and a gunshot to the right shoulder.On Thursday night alone, there were at least five shootings just in Brooklyn.

At 7:30 p.m. on Pennsylvania Avenue in East New York, a 30-year-old man was shot in the chin.

At 9:24 p.m. on East 93rd Street in Brownsville, a 36-year-old man was shot.

At 10:23 p.m. on Albany Avenue in Crown Heights, a 20-year-old man was shot in the arm and leg.

At 10:30 p.m. at Bushwick Avenue and Cornelia Street in Bushwick, a 27-year-old man was shot in the arm.

Just before midnight, at Marcus Garvey Boulevard and Gates Avenue in Bedford-Stuyvesant, a 20-year-old man was shot in the leg.

The shootings continued into the morning on Friday.

At 1:30 a.m., a 26-year-old man showed up at Jamaica Hospital in Queens with a gunshot wound to the right foot.

At 2:40 a.m. Friday on the Upper West Side, a 20-year-old man was shot in the left heel at the Wise Towers housing project on West 90th Street.

There have been 97 shootings this month so far, compared to 89 for the whole month of June last year.
Old 06-19-2020, 09:14 PM
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SC Sheriff Corruption

They also wrote a follow up piece 9 months later after 3 more were charged. Sheriff Underwood violated people's rights, bribery, false arrests, embezzlement, helping gangs, etc.

It's not just big cities but small towns where there is no recourse. Small towns and rural America is probably where most of the bad stuff happens. The police have all the power and need oversight.

I post this just to show the police aren't all on the up and up or just a few bad apples as some here would have you believe.
Old 06-19-2020, 09:45 PM
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The police are not the problem, income inequality is the root of all evil. There is a strong correlation between poverty and violent crime, plenty of studies to support this. Places like Venezuela - high poverty, super high crime. Places like Norway, one of lowest levels of income inequality, very low crime. Unemployment and crime is also strongly correlated.

Police and criminals are intertwined in a game created by the oligarchs. It’s a cock fight staged by those in power - two groups disadvantaged in their own ways and forced to fight each other for survival. Two men enter, one man leaves.

If blacks received their “40 acres and a mule” tomorrow I bet the protests instantly go away. It’s economics that fuels that community’s pain, suffering and anger, not some random guy getting shot during a traffic stop gone bad. Racism is real, but it is a substitute devil for what people really want, economic prosperity. Defunding the police will do nothing to solve that and lets the real bad guys off the hook.

I used to love watching COPS because bad dudes would get their axes kicked. It was quality entertainment. Viewed today however, it would be seen as a documentary on police brutality. WTF is wrong with this country when the bad guys become the protagonists??


Old 06-19-2020, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by novabasstoon View Post
The police are not the problem, income inequality is the root of all evil. There is a strong correlation between poverty and violent crime, plenty of studies to support this. Places like Venezuela - high poverty, super high crime. Places like Norway, one of lowest levels of income inequality, very low crime. Unemployment and crime is also strongly correlated.

Police and criminals are intertwined in a game created by the oligarchs. It’s a cock fight staged by those in power - two groups disadvantaged in their own ways and forced to fight each other for survival. Two men enter, one man leaves.

If blacks received their “40 acres and a mule” tomorrow I bet the protests instantly go away. It’s economics that fuels that community’s pain, suffering and anger, not some random guy getting shot during a traffic stop gone bad. Racism is real, but it is a substitute devil for what people really want, economic prosperity. Defunding the police will do nothing to solve that and lets the real bad guys off the hook.

I used to love watching COPS because bad dudes would get their axes kicked. It was quality entertainment. Viewed today however, it would be seen as a documentary on police brutality. WTF is wrong with this country when the bad guys become the protagonists??
Suffering from your own white guilt I guess...
​​​
No it is not community pain, suffering and anger that fuels the civil unrest, it's politicians and political action groups that are bought and paid for that foster and stoke the divide. You are either naive or ignorant to think otherwise. There will always be the less fortunate, economic equality doesn't exist, ANYWHERE, well unless you live in Cuba where everyone is poor except for those dastardly Oligarchs. . There is no other country in the world that provides more opportunities for its citizens to make their own way regardless of race. Well except for the fact that in our country there exists many programs that make it easier for those who are minorities to carve a path and succeed.

40 acres and a mule and it all goes away, what a crock of shit.

Last edited by Fish'nFool; 06-19-2020 at 10:07 PM.
Old 06-19-2020, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fish'nFool View Post
Suffering from your own white guilt I guess...
​​​
No it is not community pain, suffering and anger that fuels the civil unrest, it's politicians and political action groups that are bought and paid for that foster and stoke the divide. You are either naive or ignorant to think otherwise. There will always be the less fortunate, economic equality doesn't exist, ANYWHERE, well unless you live in Cuba where everyone is poor except for those dastardly Oligarchs. . There is no other country in the world that provides more opportunities for its citizens to make their own way regardless of race. Well except for the fact that in our country there exists many programs that make it easier for those who are minorities to carve a path and succeed.

40 acres and a mile and it all goes away, what a crock of shit.
How do you know I’m white?

And your own argument supports mine, that m-o-n-e-y is the issue. PACs and politicians are part of the problem, where do you suppose they get their funding? Isn't Soros the liberal boogeyman and the Koch brothers the puppet masters?

What’s the problem and what’s the solution if you don’t like other people’s opinions.

Old 06-20-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Slappified View Post
SC Sheriff Corruption

They also wrote a follow up piece 9 months later after 3 more were charged. Sheriff Underwood violated people's rights, bribery, false arrests, embezzlement, helping gangs, etc.

It's not just big cities but small towns where there is no recourse. Small towns and rural America is probably where most of the bad stuff happens. The police have all the power and need oversight.

I post this just to show the police aren't all on the up and up or just a few bad apples as some here would have you believe.
A story from almost year and half ago and thankfully the corruption was caught and people punished ..GOOD..

If you think bad things in LE or any profession can ever be totally stopped when you are dealing with humans you would be wrong..
Old 06-20-2020, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by novabasstoon View Post
The police are not the problem, income inequality is the root of all evil. There is a strong correlation between poverty and violent crime, plenty of studies to support this. Places like Venezuela - high poverty, super high crime. Places like Norway, one of lowest levels of income inequality, very low crime. Unemployment and crime is also strongly correlated.

Police and criminals are intertwined in a game created by the oligarchs. It’s a cock fight staged by those in power - two groups disadvantaged in their own ways and forced to fight each other for survival. Two men enter, one man leaves.

If blacks received their “40 acres and a mule” tomorrow I bet the protests instantly go away. It’s economics that fuels that community’s pain, suffering and anger, not some random guy getting shot during a traffic stop gone bad. Racism is real, but it is a substitute devil for what people really want, economic prosperity. Defunding the police will do nothing to solve that and lets the real bad guys off the hook.

I used to love watching COPS because bad dudes would get their axes kicked. It was quality entertainment. Viewed today however, it would be seen as a documentary on police brutality. WTF is wrong with this country when the bad guys become the protagonists??
Just using your post for an example so don't get triggered and attack me but this would not solve the underlying problem. The social programs have created a class of people that have to rely on the government giving them their daily needs. That creates no sense of self-worth and if you don't value yourself you do not value and respect others. Jobs would solve more of the problem than hand-outs. Earning money is so much better than having someone give it to you.
Old 06-20-2020, 07:54 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by DoughnutToo View Post
First; If you expect every officer to go to a college/university to obtain a useless bachelors degree in criminal justice, you better start increasing the pay. Further more, I wouldn't even entertain that degree. However as with athletes, you cannot expect an officer or deputy to continue to fight and chase criminals at 20 years in. Your body is physically shot. A college degree would be better suited for the second career after you retire from LEO. Don't say they could be a supervisor, because those positions are fewer and someone has to leave in order for it to be filled. No one gives a crap if you have a degree in criminal justice. It's as useful as liberal arts.

Second; I think you need to go to your local department and ask for the fiscal budget so you can grasp the idea of where money is allocated. These are not corporations, where some run a bad business with an endless supply of money. From someone who actually has knowledge on this topic, training budgets are not what you think they are. I am sorry, but I think you should understand large financial budgets first from local government. The money to be used is either approved or not approved a year in advance by your city manager or county board members. Also, your city/county budgets don't actually reflect today's economic situation for another three years. EDIT: I CANNOT SPEAK FOR NEW YORK OR NEW JERSEY OR CALIFORNIA. THESE ARE CESS POOL GOVERNMENTS.

Third; The Atlanta PD shooting was a result of TWO things (my opinion). These officers were already scared to make the wrong choice during the fight. The country is at an uproar because of "police brutality", two officers from their department are already up a creek and they don't want to be next. So they try not to be rough with this guy. Being scared and worried about their decision will cost a life. Whether it is their's or another. There is no "justifying" it, bring that down here to my county and take my taser from me. Then fire said taser at me because you don't want to go to jail. I will shoot and kill you. It never should have got to that point to begin with, but it did. The suspect escalated this situation 100% into "I dont want to go to jail".



This literally just occurred in Atlanta at the Wendy's. And what i said above applies here.



If you can show me the factual history on your 300 years of bad police apples that would be great. Camden did not start from scratch. Contracting out to the county does not constitute starting from scratch. That's like saying Chrysler started out from scratch. No, they just tossed their problems to someone with a bigger workforce. We have done it with five cities in our county. They cannot afford to have a successful police department this day in age, so they pay us a "city contract agency agreement". We service their city, but the Deputies work for the county. You are suggesting that instead of enforcing traffic with financial citations, we walk up to the window and put a bullet in you. That is not even remotely what happens. I intend on giving you a warning or a traffic ticket. If you feel that you can run me over, crash into other civilians trying to get away or shoot me, sorry but it's gonna get messy. Should society allow you to make all the rules? Did you let your kids say, "NOT TODAY DAD! YOU CAN TAKE THAT BELT AND SHOVE IT OR I WILL KILL YOU" after they refused to follow your rules? If you allowed that in your house, I feel sorry for you. I feel confident you didn't, so why should being a responsible adult reacting to a bad decision be any different?



You sir are beyond spot on in each point you made. As a LEO, straight up thumbs up to you. Your first point I can't stress enough to people. Stop asking us to be your everything! "The police didn't even pull over when I had a flat tire/car broke down/ran out of gas". Do I look like AAA, tow service or road ranger? There are businesses out there for this. Pay them for the service you need! I support capitalism and local business. Many members of THT are business owners. No county/city/state worker should fix all your problems from your taxes. That is socialism. You guys would be mind blown with the stuff people call us to fix at their houses.



You can't hire enough social workers to solve this problem. And yes, a domestic violence call for service is the most dangerous. Followed by a traffic stop.



Absolutely. My job should be to enforce the law. Society is responsible for raising their children. End of story. And at no point in my childhood did I ever think, "I should commit a crime and run from the police because I don't want to go to jail." Maybe parents should, have the talk, to their kids about that. And no, no one is listening. That is why we have so many deranged individuals in society because we keep coddling them. Your last point, we don't have a union and I wouldn't be a part of one. We do, in fact, have a citizens review board annually. We get a knew Sheriff's Advisory Council every year, made up of county leaders and local business owners. Completely open book and transparent policy. When you have so many people in the community backing you because they see every cog in the machine, you're good to go. If a bad decision is made, I can promise you my agency addresses it and they are dealt with.



No agency has "tanks". We may have gear designed for the military and repurposed, but you also have technology designed for NASA that was repurposed. Made your life easier didn't it? An Armored Personnel Carrier (APC and/or MRAP) is not a mechanized war machine for us. It's sole purpose is to protect the people inside. Whether or not you understand this, a .308 rifle or 30-06 will absolutely destroy people and vehicles. Those are standard hunting rifles that I am more concerned with than AR15's. "He has an AR-15!" OH NO!!! Clearly, you have never had to be rescued while being trapped in a building where a suicidal maniac is shooting at the police and they are trying to save you because he set it on fire. As well as, the ability to drive into flooded residential areas and rescue citizens from their homes because a hurricane just put four feet of water in your house. So, please drop the rhetoric about local police stocking up on high-powered military vehicles and gear. Keeping the peace....show me where any of this bull crap over the last two weeks has been peaceful? And yes, criminals make criminals out of themselves. End of story.



You will never make everyone happy. Any business owner will tell you that. Sorry. We have the highest incarceration rates because we have the highest percentage of members in society that think it's okay to commit crime. We have the highest percentage of members in society who do not want to work or earn their way in life, they want to take and steal yours. I don't understand how people are so out of touch with society. Get out of the bubbles everyone is living in and look around. This is absolutely ludicrous that society is okay with constant crime by the same people over and over. Statistically, it is also generational. It's pathetic. Guilty of murder? Death penalty. All day, every day, every where. I promise you, you make repercussions for actions and crime will drop. I also know, that you cannot hire Flo and Jamie from Progressive and expect them to uphold your laws to people who refuse to obey the law. Good luck with that. Fix the problem at home with society. Stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Stop coddling people. Stop giving them money to sit at home. Stop giving them money to come up with some bull jive medical term to support their bad behavior. Stop allowing schools to create "Individual Education Plans", which for bad kids says they can scream in class or in the hallways. They are allowed to walk out and punch/kick/break things. They are allowed to verbally accost someone, because of their "condition". This is a learned behavior and a disservice. They turn 18 and that crap is not tolerated anymore. Congratulations, you now have criminals. Don't tell me I am full of crap. I LIVE THIS EVERY DAY!

Guys, I continually preach to people every day. I have one job; I either take a life to save a life. Or I sacrifice my life to save a life. That is the true job description. I encourage everyone, get into law enforcement. Please show me how we change all this because it isn't working. Society keeps wanting law enforcement to change, but society is the problem. I am mentally tired of hearing society crying "woe is me". Maybe I was raised in the south with manners, respect, courtesy, morals, ethics. Because that is about to be a lost art. We are REACTIVE!! We literally react to the problem at hand. Think about that, let it truly sink in. Law enforcement is absolutely reactive in nature. We try to be "proactive" because you think we need to be running around for 12 hours to "earn our pay", but our job is to answer calls for service in your community that has disrespectful individuals that would watch your house burn down with your family in it and film it, while you cry for them to call 911. "Sorry bruh, I'm live on instagram!"

I am sorry for the long response. It needs to be said. I will end with this; When you can end a fast food restaurant messing up my "cheeseburger with ketchup and cheese only" order, you can expect law enforcement to solve all your problems.

Been a cop for 2 dozen years. Have worked in Minneapolis, suburbs and rural. DoughnutToo's post was spot on. The majority of the people you see complaining aren't getting beaten by the police daily, it's that they want to do whatever they want and many times that involves breaking the law, hence, the police interactions. It's not a race issue it is a societal issue. I had plenty of 20 year old white kids screaming at me while in Mpls and I've dealt with their kind. The mentality of I can do drugs and destroy property or drink and drive and crash and shouldn't be held responsible is rampant, and sad.
Old 06-20-2020, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
You smoking meth again?
Now your being drunk and silly. I would think your years as a LEO would enable you to know when people are on meth or not. I had 20 years with a drunk, so can spot PUI's pretty quickly, especially the emotional and angry ones.

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