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Where are the THTers that gave me crap when I said it was stupid to stop making cars?

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Where are the THTers that gave me crap when I said it was stupid to stop making cars?

Old 12-11-2019, 03:15 PM
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Default Where are the THTers that gave me crap when I said it was stupid to stop making cars?

https://jalopnik.com/hyundai-sure-is...ars-1840361684

No kidding. All I have to do is look out my office window and see all the cars in the lot. Duh.
Old 12-11-2019, 03:26 PM
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Well, $25k for this or a car....



It does remind me of IBM selling the computer business to Lenovo...
Old 12-11-2019, 03:45 PM
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Yup. Trends change... and and what they were really saying was, "Nobody wants our cars, so we're going to stop making them."

Makes you wonder why they didn't say, "Let's build something that people want."

Even when you look at Tesla. His two big dogs are - yup, cars.
Old 12-11-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
Yup. Trends change... and and what they were really saying was, "Nobody wants our cars, so we're going to stop making them."

Makes you wonder why they didn't say, "Let's build something that people want."

Even when you look at Tesla. His two big dogs are - yup, cars.
My sense( as if I have any) both for cars and computers, it really is/was about use of capital and the margins, driven by trends.
Old 12-11-2019, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
https://jalopnik.com/hyundai-sure-is...ars-1840361684

No kidding. All I have to do is look out my office window and see all the cars in the lot. Duh.
I read both the jalopnik and free press article and didn't come away with the opinion that they are stupid. Of course they lost customers, that is what was expected.

Last edited by ericinmich; 12-11-2019 at 04:24 PM.
Old 12-11-2019, 04:20 PM
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I used to think these kinds of decisions were made by people much smarter than us peasants..... then I got to the point in my career where I'm sometimes in the room (still have no say) for these kinds of things....
Old 12-11-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aubv View Post
Well, $25k for this or a car....



It does remind me of IBM selling the computer business to Lenovo...
lenevo managed to turn it into a profitable business v quickly.
Old 12-11-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by limey940 View Post
lenevo managed to turn it into a profitable business v quickly.
That was his point.

Old 12-11-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ericinmich View Post
I read both the jalopnik and free press article and didn't come away with the opinion that they are stupid. Of course they lost customers, that is what was expected.
I've come to the conclusion that no matter how right I am, you'll always chime in with the opposite position that I have... so your reply is - well - negated. LOL. Sorry -- but even your reply is foolish. They didn't just lose customers. They lost future sales by sending brand-loyal people elsewhere - and knowing, at least Ford's track-record... they won't get them back. Marketing 101... retention is key.

Is now when you chime in with your decades of automotive experience, yada, yada, yada... LOL. The guy who built the AMC Pacer had years of experience too. LOL.
Old 12-11-2019, 05:34 PM
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Cars have been losers for American manufactures for a decade or more. They are just admitting defeat in those markets, and putting the focus on what they do well, tricks and SUV’s.

also the reason Kia and Hyundai have such a large market presence is they are very price point oriented. they satisfy that market sector fairly well, and have figured out how to churn them out cheap without them being complete pieces of garbage. The big 3 have never managed to find that balance and take it to market, particularly on front wheel drive platforms.
Old 12-11-2019, 05:39 PM
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If you are losing money building cars, why continue?

Just because that's the way they always did it?
Old 12-11-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
https://jalopnik.com/hyundai-sure-is...ars-1840361684
No kidding. All I have to do is look out my office window and see all the cars in the lot. Duh.
It is all about stock price - something Hyundai/Kia, Toyota and Mazda care far less about than Ford & GM senior management, who's jobs are directly tied to stock performance.
The margins on all non-luxury cars are very small and once you get to subcompacts is practically zero or even negative. The same will be true for subcompact electric vehicles (cars and suvs) - which Ford's management believes is their salvation. So why build unprofitable vehicles now when in 5-10 years when electrics are more mainstream, the only profitable electrics will be larger SUV's and trucks - let others build those unprofitable small vehicles (whether gas, hybrid or electric) and keep minting money with the profitable stuff, even if it is at an overall lower sales volume.
Politics and pleasing the government regulators trumps everything; and the only way a car company can profit on small low priced vehicles is to make them in Mexico or China, and from both political parties that is currently radioactive.
Old 12-11-2019, 06:46 PM
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It costs billions to develop a vehicle. Why would they continue developing cars if the ROI is terrible? The fact is brand loyalty matters. There's no way anybody is dethroning the Civic/Corolla and Accord/Camry in the small-midsize market. The charger and 300 dominate the large car market which is funny considering they haven't really changed in 8 years aside from a small refresh in 2015. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Old 12-11-2019, 06:57 PM
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Cadillac Cimmaron?
Old 12-11-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Cars have been losers for American manufactures for a decade or more. They are just admitting defeat in those markets, and putting the focus on what they do well, tricks and SUV’s.

also the reason Kia and Hyundai have such a large market presence is they are very price point oriented. they satisfy that market sector fairly well, and have figured out how to churn them out cheap without them being complete pieces of garbage. The big 3 have never managed to find that balance and take it to market, particularly on front wheel drive platforms.
OK which ones are selling tricks
Old 12-11-2019, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 99yam40 View Post
OK which ones are selling tricks
Scribed...I have my credit card ready
Old 12-11-2019, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
I've come to the conclusion that no matter how right I am, you'll always chime in with the opposite position that I have... so your reply is - well - negated. LOL. Sorry -- but even your reply is foolish. They didn't just lose customers. They lost future sales by sending brand-loyal people elsewhere - and knowing, at least Ford's track-record... they won't get them back. Marketing 101... retention is key.

Is now when you chime in with your decades of automotive experience, yada, yada, yada... LOL. The guy who built the AMC Pacer had years of experience too. LOL.
I'm still waiting for when you are right so I can agree with you. It's not that hard to understand!

I reread the articles... weird, didn't see where its a slam dunk dumb idea. And I think they still make some cars. Who knows, they may make more. Maybe with electric motors...

If it matters, I never was an exec, not in marketing, just an engineer that liked to engineer and did the best I could with the constraints placed on us.
Old 12-11-2019, 07:32 PM
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no offense but you are not that important. Sorry Jersey boy
Old 12-11-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LI32 View Post
It is all about stock price - something Hyundai/Kia, Toyota and Mazda care far less about than Ford & GM senior management, who's jobs are directly tied to stock performance.
The margins on all non-luxury cars are very small and once you get to subcompacts is practically zero or even negative. The same will be true for subcompact electric vehicles (cars and suvs) - which Ford's management believes is their salvation. So why build unprofitable vehicles now when in 5-10 years when electrics are more mainstream, the only profitable electrics will be larger SUV's and trucks - let others build those unprofitable small vehicles (whether gas, hybrid or electric) and keep minting money with the profitable stuff, even if it is at an overall lower sales volume.
Politics and pleasing the government regulators trumps everything; and the only way a car company can profit on small low priced vehicles is to make them in Mexico or China, and from both political parties that is currently radioactive.
Well said. Like some of these boat builders building 700k boats. There is just more money in building one big money making hull than 7 100k boats.
Old 12-11-2019, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by aubv View Post
Well, $25k for this or a car....



It does remind me of IBM selling the computer business to Lenovo...
I have to point out that those transit connects are already a proven commodity in Europe so why not import them to fill a space. The are really taking off here too. Almost every service business has a few. Spanish made Fords. Fords been very busy over there.

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