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Interesting sociological question. Jeff Bezos, employment, and reality. So what...

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Interesting sociological question. Jeff Bezos, employment, and reality. So what...

Old 06-19-2019, 09:34 AM
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Lightbulb Interesting sociological question. Jeff Bezos, employment, and reality. So what...

Was reading an article that the lowest paid employee at Amazon makes in one year what Jeff Bezos makes in twelve seconds.

So I stopped and thought about what I was reading. And then I thought some more.

How many jobs has he created? How much wealth has he built for investors and for merchants who sell on his platform? What about the income of the higher-paid people?
I realize that these are common thoughts when discussing "income disparity". But how do you approach it? What should he make? Who decides that? What's his reward?
How much did he pay personally in taxes? What about the taxes he pays on all the things that he presumably buys with his money?

What if you, or your kid built a business like this? Should there be someone who says how much he or she should make?

Another angle is, well, if he made $10 Billion instead of $50 Billion (making numbers up) -- there would be more money. Ok. Great... so what then? Instead of 12 seconds, it'll be 24 seconds? The drama is unchanged. You're still comparing seconds to a year.

Lastly, isn't his salary only around $80k a year... with the rest based on performance?? Seems he has A LOT of incentive to perform. $80k isn't going to do it for him.

I'll bet we can keep this non-political and keep it sociological. I'm interested in the thought process of where the "line" is. And at what point would that line apply to you or a member of your family?

Old 06-19-2019, 10:01 AM
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I think the free market should be left to itself . If employees making a year make what he does in 12 seconds and want to continue to work there then that's on the employee 50 billion and wants to keep all of it then that's his deal too. If it was me I would pay good people good money and certainly take a cut as 10 billion a year will buy you anything you want , any experience you desire at any time just as 50 Billion would . I think there is a point for some massive yearly salaries that reach a point where enough is enough when you can buy everything the world has to offer over and over again whenever you want without thinking . You should get paid what your value to your business is . Bezos should get paid a bunch for what he has built. Free Markets all day for me . I can never turn my work off , when I go home or on vacation I have to work the whole time since it is my business . Most of my employees can leave and move on to what is going on outside of work . I have to do both being it is my families company and no one cares more about it then myself and other family members . Should we be paid more for that .....sure and we do get paid more for that .
Old 06-19-2019, 10:03 AM
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There is no line. Make as much as you can and pay as little as possible in taxes. If the jobs he created were so bad, the market would correct and they would not be filled at current rates.
Old 06-19-2019, 10:09 AM
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There is no line.
If I'm not happy with my present situation, I work hard to improve it.
Some would prefer to blame those who make more than them.
Old 06-19-2019, 10:12 AM
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I'm not all that fond of his political stuff......nor am I all that keen on the walton family's either. Generally speaking, life requires a certain amount of "stuff" to take place. The more of it that can be dropped off at my doorstep for a fair price without me having to hang out in a long line with folks that smell like an ashtray the better.
Old 06-19-2019, 10:59 AM
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I have an opinion that differs greatly from most of the people here on THT. Am I all for building wealth and being successful, yes. Do I think there's limit at which you have "too much" money, yes. The example you provided of Jeff Bezos is one that truly highlights the problem with capitalism in today's environment. Don't immediately jump to "oh he's a socialist, he probably loves AOC" because that's not the case either. If you take the top 10 wealthiest people in the US and combine their wealth, they have the power to fix so many things wrong with our country. I try to look at it from a basic human rights perspective where no one should have to go without the basic necessities in life (food, healthcare, housing, etc.) and I dare to add a livable wage paying job. You try to live on $9/hr and keep fighting against raising the minimum wage to $15/hr when those folks making $9/hr struggle to get ahead in our current climate. Think about what most folks on THT, and anybody in this country for that matter, can do with $10 million. $10 million is a figure I believe is fair for earnings and the first penny over $10 million then gets taxed at a much higher percentage. While it is an AOC proposal, I can't help but agree that it got people talking and it makes sense. Will everyone think it's fair, no. But not everyone comes from the same background and is given the same opportunities as the rest. As I continue to earn more (I make a very decent salary for my age) I continue to feel I should give back more and help people less fortunate than I am. That's the type of mentality that I think needs to be driven amongst everyone and if it takes government involvement, then so be it. The top wealthiest people in this country holding an abundance of wealth just doesn't make sense and I don't understand arguments supporting someone hoarding that much wealth.
Old 06-19-2019, 11:16 AM
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What happens when you have taxed that bracket and they lose incentive? After you tax it and give it away where will the future money come from? Look at France the millionaires and billionaires moved money or residences. What is a livable wage? ( how is it working in Seattle) For those advocating UBI what makes you think it will work here when it has failed everywhere else. If you think it will be necessary because of automation I question your imagination because they said the same things would happen with other technological innovations. Do you honestly think that a think tank knows better how to allocate funds than a free market? What is more adaptable a gov't controlled system of distribution or free market? What is easier to repeal/change if it doesn't work? Both sides of the isle love to spend our money and they have little incentive to achieve long term results.

You mention basic human rights... since when were those supposed to be covered by the gov't. Let's suppose that this is what is now considered "basic human rights" What areas have the biggest issues? Hint: The ones with the biggest gov't restrictions on zoning/ housing. If you let free market happen people will either build more housing thereby lowering costs or if you don't give so many subsidies then people will be forced to move to areas they can better afford further diversifying and strengthening the overall economy. People also like to advocate for free education but what they fail to realize is that one of the biggest inflators of cost is the easy gov't backed loans. Yes you will lose some arts majors and economical non-viable career paths and maybe not as many people come out with a "degree" but how many grads even work in the same field their degree is in? Maybe it will spur on the trades. Bottom line the more you try to manipulate market forces through artificial controls the more F'ed it gets.

I also resent the way people make a morality play where if you are not for giving away free money you are evil. Both sides want to help we just have different ways of achieving results.
Old 06-19-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Shoreacresgrown View Post
..I continue to feel I should give back more and help people less fortunate than I am.
That's the type of mentality that I think needs to be driven amongst everyone and if it takes government involvement, then so be it.
The top wealthiest people in this country holding an abundance of wealth just doesn't make sense and I don't understand arguments supporting someone hoarding that much wealth.
Give what you want.
What the rest of your bullshit describes is taking not giving.

Old 06-19-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
Was reading an article that the lowest paid employee at Amazon makes in one year what Jeff Bezos makes in twelve seconds.

So I stopped and thought about what I was reading. And then I thought some more.

How many jobs has he created? How much wealth has he built for investors and for merchants who sell on his platform? What about the income of the higher-paid people?
I realize that these are common thoughts when discussing "income disparity". But how do you approach it? What should he make? Who decides that? What's his reward?
How much did he pay personally in taxes? What about the taxes he pays on all the things that he presumably buys with his money?

What if you, or your kid built a business like this? Should there be someone who says how much he or she should make?

Another angle is, well, if he made $10 Billion instead of $50 Billion (making numbers up) -- there would be more money. Ok. Great... so what then? Instead of 12 seconds, it'll be 24 seconds? The drama is unchanged. You're still comparing seconds to a year.

Lastly, isn't his salary only around $80k a year... with the rest based on performance?? Seems he has A LOT of incentive to perform. $80k isn't going to do it for him.

I'll bet we can keep this non-political and keep it sociological. I'm interested in the thought process of where the "line" is. And at what point would that line apply to you or a member of your family?
He is a step away from antitrust action which is law on the books already.
The rest is not relevant to me in any way.
His wealth is his business, and measuring it is advertising fodder.


Old 06-19-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Shoreacresgrown View Post
The top wealthiest people in this country holding an abundance of wealth just doesn't make sense and I don't understand arguments supporting someone hoarding that much wealth.
Well, many of them aren't really hoarding wealth. Several billionaires, including Bezos' ex-wife (but not him) have signed the Giving Pledge, to give away the majority of their wealth. You can argue about the methods and processes behind that, but it is less than "hoarding".

But I think the larger argument in favor of this, is what is the incentive for people to start companies and take risks if they are going to be limited in their success by government regulations? In the theoretical society you envision, where the government limits people in the amount of wealth they can amass, maybe a guy like Bezos just makes a small online bookstore that employs a dozen people at minimum wage, and stops there? I mean, he could try harder, but all he'd get for his effort is his money taken away by the government to be redistributed in a manner out of his control.
Old 06-19-2019, 12:06 PM
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahe.../#9d1ab20776dd
Old 06-19-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by joe.giuliano View Post
How is that average worker faring?Do you care what the top makes if collectively everyone is better off?

Better, worse, same? Look at total package of purchase power and incentives
Old 06-19-2019, 12:38 PM
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I think the larger question is...............what is the combined pay or wealth of those that Bezos employed or helped make gain in stocks?

He makes "x" per second, but what is the combined pay of all those that he benefited?

There is no such thing as "hoarding" money. That thought process belongs to "things" and not wealth in my mind.

What is the combined philanthropy of the 10 "wealthiest" people in the world?
Old 06-19-2019, 01:40 PM
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I wonder how much his manager level people make?
Old 06-19-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Shoreacresgrown View Post
I have an opinion that differs greatly from most of the people here on THT. Am I all for building wealth and being successful, yes. Do I think there's limit at which you have "too much" money, yes. The example you provided of Jeff Bezos is one that truly highlights the problem with capitalism in today's environment. Don't immediately jump to "oh he's a socialist, he probably loves AOC" because that's not the case either. If you take the top 10 wealthiest people in the US and combine their wealth, they have the power to fix so many things wrong with our country. I try to look at it from a basic human rights perspective where no one should have to go without the basic necessities in life (food, healthcare, housing, etc.) and I dare to add a livable wage paying job. You try to live on $9/hr and keep fighting against raising the minimum wage to $15/hr when those folks making $9/hr struggle to get ahead in our current climate. Think about what most folks on THT, and anybody in this country for that matter, can do with $10 million. $10 million is a figure I believe is fair for earnings and the first penny over $10 million then gets taxed at a much higher percentage. While it is an AOC proposal, I can't help but agree that it got people talking and it makes sense. Will everyone think it's fair, no. But not everyone comes from the same background and is given the same opportunities as the rest. As I continue to earn more (I make a very decent salary for my age) I continue to feel I should give back more and help people less fortunate than I am. That's the type of mentality that I think needs to be driven amongst everyone and if it takes government involvement, then so be it. The top wealthiest people in this country holding an abundance of wealth just doesn't make sense and I don't understand arguments supporting someone hoarding that much wealth.
See bolded statements:
1) I don't see the problem with capitalism. He makes a lot of money, but so what? the "problem" in my mind is people viewing success as a "problem".
2) If you struggle on $9/hour, then find a way to better yourself so you can make more doing a more valuable job. Paying $15/hr for a $9/job screws up the economics of efficiency, and the corresponding rise in prices will actually hurt the $9 guy more than a rich guy.
3) News flash, we're already taxed at a higher rate the more we make, plus AMT kicks in as well. How much more progressive do you want to make it? Maybe tax 100% of your income over a certain dollar amount? Guess what - millionaires will take their money elsewhere.
4) If you feel like you should give back more, no one is stopping you. But that doesn't mean I should have to give back more just because you feel that way. Maybe I give $2,500 to charity, and maybe you give $10,000, and maybe a third guy gives none, and we all make the same income. Why do YOU get to decide how much I should have to donate? Give what you want, but don't force your views on me.
5) Government involvement? So basically the same government that managed to screw up a gas can should force/brainwash me into feeling guilty that I made money?

Old 06-19-2019, 01:59 PM
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There should never be a maximum amount a person can make. Jeff Bezoz started in his garage selling books and made all of his money legally through hard work,smart decisions, good managers etc. He started out, like other billionaires, with no unfair advantage or leg up on society.

I hear people at work bitch about how much physicians make. My response is if you want to make what they make then go be a physician. Dont be pissed off because you chose to go to a 1 year program that pays significantly less than 11-15 years it took for the physician to start making doctors pay. In the US we were not born with a predetermined profession. God wasnt in the baby nursery at the hospital handing out future professions to Warren Buffet to be a Billionare, he earned it. The person working at a fast food restaurant chose to do that, accepted the terms of employment including pay. If you dont like your pay, hours, benefits then go find another job.
Old 06-19-2019, 02:39 PM
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Listen, I understand completely everyone’s points. It’s not my place to push my views on the next person. I can and do operate as I choose. I chose to respond to the thread accordingly.

When I look at someone like Bezos who’s company is in the news for record profits, taking advantage of tax loopholes, and at the same time has workers working in terrible conditions and barely scraping by, I have a problem with that. When you’ve had that much success based on your creative ideas but still choose to neglect the people who choose to work for you and are the livelihood of your company, is absurd. If any of the Fortune 500 company’s employees walked out and essentially began to “strike” you'd quickly see things change. That won’t happen since most people have an immense amount of fear/anxiety of pushing back against a corporation or risking losing their jobs. That’s natural. Hell, there’s a large portion of people who are afraid to ask for raises for fear of negative repercussions.
Old 06-19-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MedicalManagement View Post
There should never be a maximum amount a person can make. Jeff Bezoz started in his garage selling books and made all of his money legally through hard work,smart decisions, good managers etc. He started out, like other billionaires, with no unfair advantage or leg up on society.

I hear people at work bitch about how much physicians make. My response is if you want to make what they make then go be a physician. Dont be pissed off because you chose to go to a 1 year program that pays significantly less than 11-15 years it took for the physician to start making doctors pay. In the US we were not born with a predetermined profession. God wasnt in the baby nursery at the hospital handing out future professions to Warren Buffet to be a Billionare, he earned it. The person working at a fast food restaurant chose to do that, accepted the terms of employment including pay. If you dont like your pay, hours, benefits then go find another job.
This.... plus, it’s none of our business.
Old 06-19-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by fisheyed View Post
How is that average worker faring?Do you care what the top makes if collectively everyone is better off?

Better, worse, same? Look at total package of purchase power and incentives
I wonder why the change occurred,
Old 06-19-2019, 02:56 PM
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I was in an Amazon Go store this week in NY, was impressed by the process, no checkout line, pick your product up & walk out. Receipt goes to your Amazon Go App. I suspect they will have fewer & fewer low level employees as they continue to roll out more technology & automation.

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