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High water,boaters the target...

Old 06-16-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by muskamoot View Post
So we have high water levels here in the Great Lakes region,not exactly breaking news.Levels are at an all time high and the possibility of going higher is there,depending on the weather. This current high water kind of snuck up on property owners because it wasn't really forecasted to get this high. It's been about 30 years since levels have been here and a lot of the current waterfront property owners were not on the water back then. Sandbagging is the norm,but seawall cap extensions are also popular. The average homeowner has about 4" of seawall before waves come over. Local facebook pages are going after boaters for their wakes, using video to document the wake and turning the videos over to the Sheriff Dept with a complaint. The local authorities are writing a ton of tickets for wake violations. This is the St Clair River,an international waterway with industrial shipping and tons of great fishing and recreational boaters. The current attitude is quickly turning anti boater with the locals threatening to shoot at boats with pellet guns,set traps etc. Boaters are probably not doing anything that they haven't in the past, but the waves now wash over seawalls and people are pretty touchy. I guess my question is,what will the average boater do to cope with the high water? Slow down and pretty much putt around at no wake speeds? Forgo boating until the water levels drop? Business as usual? Just wondering where this may go because the area is very dependent on seasonal boaters for the business the bring and the money they spend.
if someone shoots at my boat a wake will be the least of their problems.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by IMPLiberty View Post

I guess I'm not picturing this well enough... houses are built so low that water splashing over a sea wall is entering the house? Some posts here mention 4" and 10". A 4" wake would enter a house? That seems like an issue with the house and property, no?
Yes please a pic or two of said 4" seawall protecting million dollar homes.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:18 AM
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Can't wait to read the first piece of legislation that some moron politician will offer up that will attempt to ban all powerboats from the Great Lakes.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by muskamoot View Post
So we have high water levels here in the Great Lakes region,not exactly breaking news.Levels are at an all time high and the possibility of going higher is there,depending on the weather. This current high water kind of snuck up on property owners because it wasn't really forecasted to get this high. It's been about 30 years since levels have been here and a lot of the current waterfront property owners were not on the water back then. Sandbagging is the norm,but seawall cap extensions are also popular. The average homeowner has about 4" of seawall before waves come over. Local facebook pages are going after boaters for their wakes, using video to document the wake and turning the videos over to the Sheriff Dept with a complaint. The local authorities are writing a ton of tickets for wake violations. This is the St Clair River,an international waterway with industrial shipping and tons of great fishing and recreational boaters. The current attitude is quickly turning anti boater with the locals threatening to shoot at boats with pellet guns,set traps etc. Boaters are probably not doing anything that they haven't in the past, but the waves now wash over seawalls and people are pretty touchy. I guess my question is,what will the average boater do to cope with the high water? Slow down and pretty much putt around at no wake speeds? Forgo boating until the water levels drop? Business as usual? Just wondering where this may go because the area is very dependent on seasonal boaters for the business the bring and the money they spend.
First off there is no champions in war "back to back champion's" ??? Wow! Im so disgusted with that you don't deserve to be part of THT or have anything to do with anything!!! Go to The Wall and ask yourself who is "the champion's".
Second I port on Lake Ontario and yes the water is the highest it has has been I can remember and yes it is doing a lot of damage my slip is literally one foot under water and three pumps are running 24/7 in the clubhouse as water is running into the building. Our boat is still in the yard
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powers View Post
Aren't boaters responsible for any damage caused by their wake regardless of no-wake zone?
Originally Posted by SeaJay View Post
A boat's wake is responsible for the damage it causes.
Those two statements fall under the collection of old wives tales of boating.
Th actual rule is you are responsible for your wake when it exceeds what is customary and usual for that area; and the property owner is on his/her own if they don't build their property to withstand expected customary and usual boat traffic.
On a residential narrow canal that will ordinarily be boats traveling at 5 mph with minimal wake, while in New York Harbor, that is tug and fuel barges travelling at 10-12 kts with a 4-5' wake.
It sounds like on the Great Lakes, they may have some special rules that need to be followed, and I think the OP is suggesting those rules are burdensome and not usually followed - if that is so and they are enforcing them now to protect property, that is just too bad on the boat operators.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by muskamoot View Post
Rambling? Trying to sort out the effects of high water and recreational boating from both sides.Your second statement is just stupid.Boats make waves,water does what it does. What may look to be someone in a boat enjoying life,now is looked at as property damage. Is the jerk the boater or the homeowner? There are also consequences to living on the water,in hurricane areas,on the side of a mountain,in the middle of bear country etc. By the way,homes are not being damaged,we are talking about yards getting wet.Mother nature can cause the water to rise to the point that homes are damaged,not boaters at this point.

It's one long sentence. Hard to read.

If the water is high enough that people or you (whomever) have to sandbag to keep water out and along comes a boater creating waves/wakes how would you react if it were you trying keep the water back
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:23 AM
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I'm having trouble even understanding this. Maybe it is because I am not from the area.

People buy waterfront property where the elevation at high water is measured in inches? I would think that any structure would be on a higher part of land or built on piles? Now, I am reading that there aren't any structures to damage but someone's yard gets wet and they are up in arms about it?

Does it undercut the seawall or something is this just the equivalent of some old guy in FL griping about his grass?
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Thalasso View Post
It's one long sentence. Hard to read.

If the water is high enough that people or you (whomever) have to sandbag to keep water out and along comes a boater creating waves/wakes how would you react if it were you trying keep the water back
With 11 periods and 4 question marks,it's hardly one long sentence.If it's hard to read,you may be challenged. Yes the water is high enough to require sandbagging.The entire area is one of the largest,if not the largest freshwater delta in the country. Everything is pretty much near water level during periods of high water.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by IMPLiberty View Post

I guess I'm not picturing this well enough... houses are built so low that water splashing over a sea wall is entering the house? Some posts here mention 4" and 10". A 4" wake would enter a house? That seems like an issue with the house and property, no?



Probably not a foreseen issue when the houses were built. The lake water levels were down for 15 years. Just in the last few years they are rising because of snow levels along with record rainfall. Now it's to be a record year when it comes to high water levels
Fla for example. Homes that were built and never saw any issues until it happened

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Tuesday the shallowest of the Great Lakes hit the highest level of its period of record in May, surpassing the previous peak set in 1986.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...vels/39543821/
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:30 AM
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Just by owning a house on the water {and I do } you take risks of water intrusion. Either by nature or man. This seems to be a unique situation and local law should put up temp signs. You just can’t blame a boat 1/4 mile away for a wake problem. He could easily say you the homeowner are not taking preventive measures. If the signs are up then everyone is on the same page.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by The Drifter View Post
First off there is no champions in war "back to back champion's" ??? Wow! Im so disgusted with that you don't deserve to be part of THT or have anything to do with anything!!! Go to The Wall and ask yourself who is "the champion's".
Second I port on Lake Ontario and yes the water is the highest it has has been I can remember and yes it is doing a lot of damage my slip is literally one foot under water and three pumps are running 24/7 in the clubhouse as water is running into the building. Our boat is still in the yard
Yes there is a back to back world war champion,the USA. No apologies. The proper thing to happen,should you be too appalled to continue on the forum, would be for you to leave. We have a constitution here in the USA and the first amendment covers freedom of speech. So if that's your issue, you can pretty much suck my &allsack. Oh, and sorry about your slip being under water,maybe waders?
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:34 AM
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Kinda hard to feel bad for people who build on or move into a house that essentially sits on a flood plain. When the water was low a few years back people were advocating for dredging, too. Heck, there are houses with standard foundations on the St. Clair River that sit a child's stone throw away from the river. I have difficulty sympathizing with those types of first world problems.

Last edited by Redm2; 06-16-2019 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by muskamoot View Post
With 11 periods and 4 question marks,it's hardly one long sentence.If it's hard to read,you may be challenged. Yes the water is high enough to require sandbagging.The entire area is one of the largest,if not the largest freshwater delta in the country. Everything is pretty much near water level during periods of high water.

A paragraph or three would have helped
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by muskamoot View Post
So we have high water levels here in the Great Lakes region,not exactly breaking news.Levels are at an all time high and the possibility of going higher is there,depending on the weather.

This current high water kind of snuck up on property owners because it wasn't really forecasted to get this high. It's been about 30 years since levels have been here and a lot of the current waterfront property owners were not on the water back then.
Sandbagging is the norm,but seawall cap extensions are also popular. The average homeowner has about 4" of seawall before waves come over.

Local facebook pages are going after boaters for their wakes, using video to document the wake and turning the videos over to the Sheriff Dept with a complaint. The local authorities are writing a ton of tickets for wake violations.

This is the St Clair River,an international waterway with industrial shipping and tons of great fishing and recreational boaters. The current attitude is quickly turning anti boater with the locals threatening to shoot at boats with pellet guns,set traps etc.

Boaters are probably not doing anything that they haven't in the past, but the waves now wash over seawalls and people are pretty touchy. I guess my question is,what will the average boater do to cope with the high water? Slow down and pretty much putt around at no wake speeds? Forgo boating until the water levels drop? Business as usual? Just wondering where this may go because the area is very dependent on seasonal boaters for the business the bring and the money they spend.

See how much easier to read?
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Beuford T. Justice View Post
Innocent until proven guilty is still the rule of law in most jurisdictions.
pftpftpftpftpftpftpftpftpftpftpftpft....
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:29 AM
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See I see two sides of the same coin at the same time here.

One we have the boater that doesn't give a flying f about anybody else and is only happy making himself happy.
On the other side of the coin is the home owner that thinks they are the only one that matters in life and everyone else has to bow to their needs, likes and wishes.

One gooood point that hasn't been mentioned is the home owner is paying taxes on land that is under water and he CAN NOT use! And some of those home owners have hundreds of feet of lake front property underwater .... and that has nothing to do with shoreline erosion that occurs naturally or via the wake.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:00 AM
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I think the issue we are discussing is that some property owners are painting a target on passing boaters who, in most cases, are acting within existing laws. There are always those who push the limits or lack awareness, and for that local officials have stepped up enforcement of the current laws.

Lake St. Clair is about five feet above chart datum right now. Chart datum was established in 1918. A record high was reached in the 50s. A new record high was set in the 80s. And now we are seeing new records again. The wind and the constant rain for the past two months aren’t helping the situation. Gotta love Ma Nature...

I feel for those on Lake Ontario who are dealing with even higher water levels. But a passing boaters isn’t putting water over your docks or in your clubhouse, that’s Mother Nature.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Thalasso View Post
It's one long sentence. Hard to read.

If the water is high enough that people or you (whomever) have to sandbag to keep water out and along comes a boater creating waves/wakes how would you react if it were you trying keep the water back
I would say "damn, I'm stupid for having a place that can't handle the high (but normal range) of water levels on my waterway"

LTA-GLWL-Graph.pdf
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:44 PM
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2014 200’ long dock

Today

Today 2
To weigh in on this. I have a place on Lk Michigan. The first pic is from 2014, the 200’ ft long dock’s far end was a good 40-50 ft from the edge of the water. The little pine tree is barely visible in the bottom left corner. The water level was lower than this in 2010.
The next two pictures are from today. The row of rocks that were at the near of the dock are now underwater, the white posts are gone and the pint tree is almost 8’ from the waters edge. Most of the gain in the water level has occurred in the last two years. If you can make out the record stake sticking out the water, that is the current high water mark set in the 80’s. They say we will have a few more inches of rise in the water level yet this year. The lake give the and take the away.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:45 PM
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I'm one of those stupid people that ownes a house on a river that is known to flood. I've paddled down the road to get to the house stood on the porch and had wakes come on the porch and some get in the house. I've also stood knee deep in the house once. Although it's fustrating and heart breaking it's part of being on the river. I think the boaters should be respectful but its not their fault the lake is above it's limits.
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