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Cash is no longer King...

Old 06-09-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by johnny.dollar View Post
We desperately need higher interest rates to flush out all the BS. Debt free folks must be tired of being punished for not financing everything and having savings.
Iím debt free. I donít feel punished.
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AsurfAholic View Post


i donít believe I said that all of them are shady, but point taken. I think the smart businessman builds all the transaction costs and other costs into the price. When someone offers a cash discount, and you offer a check does the discount still apply? There are no transaction fees for checking deposits. Checks are same as cash to a legitimate business. Most of my experience shows that they donít want a check. They want cash because there's no record. The idea is to avoid the tax, which I totally understand.
not really. Sometimes. But checks have their own issue. It isnít cash until it is. Itís just s promise that can be revoked (stop check) and subject to fraud and a bunch of other things
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by johnny.dollar View Post
We desperately need higher interest rates to flush out all the BS. Debt free folks must be tired of being punished for not financing everything and having savings.
We manage to live in a society that has manipulated being debt free as a bad and irresponsible thing.

We do not need higher interest rates. We need more responsible and stricter lenders. I have never once had a client say to me " I met with my accountant and they said I can afford x". Everyone wants to push it to "What is the most a lender will approve me for?"
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AsurfAholic View Post


...When someone offers a cash discount, and you offer a check does the discount still apply? There are no transaction fees for checking deposits. Checks are same as cash to a legitimate business. Most of my experience shows that they donít want a check. They want cash because there's no record....
I replaced two air conditioners at my beach house last year. Total bill was about $12 k.
I got about $400 off for paying by check. I considered it a cash discount. I have many more examples, but I think the point is taken that some guys prefer cash to evade taxes. Many many many others are avoiding fees.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post

Iím debt free. I donít feel punished.
The average person is punished. Retired people are punished. Anybody that saves money in the bank/bonds/etc is punished. It's a scam to get regular people to play in the casino called the stock market--this takes away a safe haven of a decent fixed return on their savings and ultimately allows the oligarchs and wall street banksters to fleece the middle class/working class.

Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
We manage to live in a society that has manipulated being debt free as a bad and irresponsible thing.

We do not need higher interest rates. We need more responsible and stricter lenders. I........
We need higher interest rates...house/car/boat prices are insane due to low interest rates. Yet, people that work hard and live debt free can't earn any money on their savings without taking huge risks in the casino (stock market). Most folks are not smart or skilled enough to play at the casino. The creation of funds, 401k, and mutual funds is yet another scam to siphon money to the money changers via fees, bonuses, etc. If the average joe could get a nice return on CD's or savings account, wall street wouldn't have so profit potential in fees, etc.

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Old 06-09-2019, 09:13 AM
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Why do you believe your money should make money? Why should you be compensated without sustaining risk?

most importantly, why do you feel price is a punishment? Sellers benefit from high prices...buyers benefit from low.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
We manage to live in a society that has manipulated being debt free as a bad and irresponsible thing.

We do not need higher interest rates. We need more responsible and stricter lenders. I have never once had a client say to me " I met with my accountant and they said I can afford x". Everyone wants to push it to "What is the most a lender will approve me for?"

Got so frustrated the other day due to this exact thing. Wife and I have always been the type to buy a car, pay as much cash as we can and only finance what portion is needed and then pay off as soon as possible and drive it til the wheels fall off. Her current car is a 2006 and I suspect will last another 4-5 years, but she has already said that if a $2000 or higher repair pops up, she's getting rid of it and buying another. I asked her what she wanted and she said she had no clue, so I said lets go check out some cars since it's not needed yet and see if there is one you just can't live without. Frustrating part was that we could not get a price on anything...multiple dealerships and everytime I asked about price the standard answer was "this one is only XX per month". I said I don't care about how much it is monthly, what is the price for it.....no one could or would give me an answer. Even told one guy that I wanted to buy it for cash, he said "no, we'll finance it for XX per month and there's no pre payment penalty, so you can pay it off early if you want". I guess they figure enough people will just say forget it, finance it and then never pay it off.

On a different, but same note, I was talking to my across the street neighbor the other day and he bought something and I said, just out of curiosity, what's the ballpark price on a new one? His answer, only $650 a month.....
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Diverboy View Post

On a different, but same note, I was talking to my across the street neighbor the other day and he bought something and I said, just out of curiosity, what's the ballpark price on a new one? His answer, only $650 a month.....
Your neighbor is a dumbass.

I had to go to the local boat shop the other day for some oil. They have expanded their business into side by sides. On the windshield of each one there was a price. Each price read "only $xxx/month". There was no mention of purchase price, just the payment. Murica!
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Why do you believe your money should make money? Why should you be compensated without sustaining risk?

most importantly, why do you feel price is a punishment? Sellers benefit from high prices...buyers benefit from low.
Because for the health of society and our country, it is foolish to have a bunch of debt zombies. And the high price of homes means the average American has his "net worth" tied up in a house (which I argue, is not really worth, but that's a different debate).

Why shouldn't money make money? The person earned the money and it's downright wretched that their money loses value sitting in the bank. It's amazing how myopic many people are. They don't see the long term ramification of the complete Financialization of all aspects of our society.

Here's a thought: "Tucker Carlson: We Are Ruled By Mercenaries Who Feel No Long-Term Obligation To The People They Rule


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...they_rule.html


Last edited by johnny.dollar; 06-09-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Why do you believe your money should make money? Why should you be compensated without sustaining risk?
I am not a money-savvy person. I earn it, spend it, save it, and have a some debt in the form of a mortgage and boat payment. It wasn't until the 2008 economic downturn that I realized that debt is used as collateral (or essentially, money) by those entities who drive the economy. It was a concept that took a while to wrap my head around because, in metaphorical terms, it was like trading someone else's hunger for my own food.

​​​​​​I think I see his point in that it makes more sense to get a larger return on letting someone borrow actual money (CDs, savings accounts, etc), than to trade someone's debt. Yet, it seems the opposite is true based on how hard financing is pushed these days. His statement, IMO, is less "I deserve" and more of a broad perspective on how backwards it is to think that debt is worth more than money.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:05 PM
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Carlson contradicts himself several times during his rant. Not worth watching.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SOSC View Post
​​​​​​I think I see his point in that it makes more sense to get a larger return on letting someone borrow actual money (CDs, savings accounts, etc), than to trade someone's debt. Yet, it seems the opposite is true based on how hard financing is pushed these days. His statement, IMO, is less "I deserve" and more of a broad perspective on how backwards it is to think that debt is worth more than money.
Correct.

" Financialization is a term sometimes used in discussions of the financial capitalism that has developed over the decades between 1980 and 2010, in which financial leverage tended to override capital (equity), and financial markets tended to dominate over the traditional industrial economy and agricultural economics. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financialization
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WeeKilt View Post
Yeah, the problem is that he wanted a PREMIUM finance price when I was paying cash and this Scot is cheap. I was a used car dealer for years, and have stayed pretty savvy to values. Not padding pockets. Not opposed to profit, just not paying excessive profit.
You can't find the vehicle you want for the price you want after an extended search. I'm thinking maybe the savvy has come and gone.
Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
We manage to live in a society that has manipulated being debt free as a bad and irresponsible thing.

We do not need higher interest rates. We need more responsible and stricter lenders. I have never once had a client say to me " I met with my accountant and they said I can afford x". Everyone wants to push it to "What is the most a lender will approve me for?"
Funny you say that. I had a mortgage broker telling me I could afford a house twice the price I of what I applied for. He was really pushing me to go for more. Not in an obnoxious way, just a salesman trying to get a bigger commission way. Needless to say, I didn't bite. Two sides to every coin.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:34 PM
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This is so simple - buy privately - have your mechanic check it out (I know you are either saavy or savvy from above & know cars & wrench & a former dealer) but lay the outcome of the inspection on the mechanic to the seller - make your offer of 8k or less & walk if they don't like it ~ for example

I also disagree with the no more than 1000 profit on a used car aspect - can't keep the lights on for that as a dealer - for an 9k car they are paying probably 4-6k or so on a trade-in or at best at auction

I do hope you find your vehicle - it's a new world out there for sure these days - the low end of the market is the dregs for a dealer - go private seller

I have not had a car loan in over 20 years & patience is key - good luck
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by loverofshells View Post
This is so simple - buy privately - have your mechanic check it out (I know you are either saavy or savvy from above & know cars & wrench & a former dealer) but lay the outcome of the inspection on the mechanic to the seller - make your offer of 8k or less & walk if they don't like it ~ for example

I also disagree with the no more than 1000 profit on a used car aspect - can't keep the lights on for that as a dealer - for an 9k car they are paying probably 4-6k or so on a trade-in or at best at auction

I do hope you find your vehicle - it's a new world out there for sure these days - the low end of the market is the dregs for a dealer - go private seller

I have not had a car loan in over 20 years & patience is key - good luck
I meant that to read that few used cars for sale are only priced at a $1000 profit, and your statement was what I was trying to convey.

Iíll find one what I want on my own terms. I guess it was a rant more than anything else, certainly understand others have different thoughts and in the end itís my problem to solve.

But hey... gave us all something to ponder, so thanks to all for posting!
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WeeKilt View Post

I meant that to read that few used cars for sale are only priced at a $1000 profit, and your statement was what I was trying to convey.

Iíll find one what I want on my own terms. I guess it was a rant more than anything else, certainly understand others have different thoughts and in the end itís my problem to solve.

But hey... gave us all something to ponder, so thanks to all for posting!
Gotcha

Understand

Along with the frustration of it all

Good luck
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
Cash is king, they want more of it is all.

So finance whatever amount then pay off the loan in 30 days, you get a better deal, they get their kickback and the bank gets screwed.
most bigger banks will only commissions to car dealerships if loans remain open more than 90 days. Some loans have early payoff penalties
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:44 AM
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Thatīs interesting. A friend of mine asked me to go car hunting with him here in Europe, so off we went and every new car and about 75% of the used ones put the price up for paying in one payment, without finance. The kicker was even with the interest the deal on the price when financed was still cheaper than the interest on the loan, you only had to keep the finance going for one year, no penalty for paying it all off on the 13th payment, go figure. The used cars it was even more interesting, there were two prices, one for one off payment and one for finance, okay for the used car you paid a bit more, and I mean only the smallest bit more over the long term of finance but the whole thing was laughable. On the subject of cash, almost nowhere here wants to take hard currency, maximum of 1500, after that special paperwork has to be filled out, banks charge for counting cash and coin and if you pay in more than a certain amount you have to show all the invoices and who they are for at the bank when paying in, it is to avoid money laundering and the like. Some countries like Holland and Belgium are going towards a completely cashless society.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post

Iím debt free. I donít feel punished.
I have debt but it's way less than 10% of my net worth and there's way more than enough in my savings/investments to pay it off today. Interest rates are still artificially low. Why not use someone else's money when they're giving it away. If rates were 8% or more I would make a different choice.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mikefloyd View Post
I have debt but it's way less than 10% of my net worth and there's way more than enough in my savings/investments to pay it off today. Interest rates are still artificially low. Why not use someone else's money when they're giving it away. If rates were 8% or more I would make a different choice.
Putting the money into circulation via low interest and via credit-worthy souls such as yourself is a reasonable approach.
The question is only do we have enough or not enough money in circulation...and that relates to money as a permission granter for economic activity, not a store of value.
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