Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Dockside Chat
Reload this Page >

Parkland deputy arrested for (doing nothing).

Notices
Like Tree146Likes

Parkland deputy arrested for (doing nothing).

Old 06-06-2019, 06:26 AM
  #141  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,959
Default

Do all schools have an SRO, or is it regional? Are they a sworn in LEO? In a lot of schools in Europe there are police when children going in and out of school and routine patrols past the doors, this gets bumped up when on high terror alerts, as do a lot of places of worship.
buxa is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:02 AM
  #142  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Key Largo
Posts: 1,414
Default

Again...I am NOT defending Peterson. He should have went in and if he did then maybe the outcome would have been different. We pay him to act in this situation and he failed in his duty. But we are condemning a man with a FELONY for not taking heroic action because he was asked to go into an unknown hostile situation armed with only a handgun. I don't know about that.
I do know this: I will never condemn others for not running in and facing down terror when I myself have never been in the position to act when facing similar terror. Remember this was not a "fight or flight" scenario. He had to will himself to engage a crazed killer armed with a high power rifle. It is easy to be brave when sitting behind a keyboard but the facts are that even a good percentage of trained soldiers freeze up when faced with hostile fire.
homeby51 is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:47 AM
  #143  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Mistersippi
Posts: 2,564
Default

Is it safe to say there was a lack of management control leading to poor decision making?
I would think that rushing into a potential hostage situation could also get hostages killed. Maybe some of the LEO folks on here can elaborate on hostage protocol. I can't judge what was going on in Petersons heart, maybe he was being a coward may he wasn't. Bad situation all the way around.
He will walk IMO.
JCC123 is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:56 AM
  #144  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 230
Default

Originally Posted by JCC123 View Post
Is it safe to say there was a lack of management control leading to poor decision making?
I would think that rushing into a potential hostage situation could also get hostages killed. Maybe some of the LEO folks on here can elaborate on hostage protocol. I can't judge what was going on in Petersons heart, maybe he was being a coward may he wasn't. Bad situation all the way around.
He will walk IMO.
If it turns into a hostage situation and he stops actively killing people, you would call out the negotiation team. Usually, there is an officer within a reasonable distance who has been through Hostage Negotiations class and can hold down the fort until the full team can be assembled. I took it a couple years ago. It's an interesting course.
Muddyrubberduck is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:05 AM
  #145  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 980
Default

Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
It is easy to be brave when sitting behind a keyboard but the facts are that even a good percentage of trained soldiers freeze up when faced with hostile fire.
Very true and why teachers and admin need to be armed. School security is a multi-billion dollar business which has failed to protect students in the vast majority of school shootings. How our governments condone this payoff to security companies instead of allowing teachers to be armed is beyond comprehension.
anonymous_coward is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:08 AM
  #146  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,418
Default

Originally Posted by anonymous_coward View Post
... School security is a multi-billion dollar business which has failed to protect students in the vast majority of school shootings...
I would say that you've understated the failure in the vast majority of school shootings.
OTOH, What about in the vast majority of schools where no shooting has taken place because of the deterrent impact of armed SROs?
Got an estimate for that?
Domoe likes this.
chrispnet is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:14 AM
  #147  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 10,434
Default

Originally Posted by anonymous_coward View Post
Very true and why teachers and admin need to be armed. School security is a multi-billion dollar business which has failed to protect students in the vast majority of school shootings. How our governments condone this payoff to security companies instead of allowing teachers to be armed is beyond comprehension.
Huge fan of allowing teachers to be armed, with a few caveats (compared to the normal CWP laws).

1) On person carry only, and only with a suitable holster. No guns in purses. Too easy to leave a purse laying around and a kid get ahold of it. In a holster, no one should even know of it's presence, much less have access to it.
2) No duty to notify administrators of their choice to carry. School administrators are largely anti gun. Not all, but a huge percentage. Teachers should not face undue scrutiny in response to being willing to help protect their students.
anonymous_coward likes this.
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:17 AM
  #148  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 10,434
Default

Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
I would say that you've understated the failure in the vast majority of school shootings.
OTOH, What about in the vast majority of schools where no shooting has taken place because of the deterrent impact of armed SROs?
Got an estimate for that?

Very tough to factor that in.

IMO in some cases the visibility of the SRO can actually be a negative. Until this past school year, the SRO at my wife's school split his time between 2 schools, which were about 4 miles apart. Yet he drove a marked car. Really easy to tell when he wasn't there due to the lack of his patrol car being present. Thankfully they now have a full time SRO at both of those schools, but the old way was really poorly thought out. Anyone wishing to do harm could just drive by and make an easy determination if it was a good time or not to do their misdeeds.
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:21 AM
  #149  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 980
Default

Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
I would say that you've understated the failure in the vast majority of school shootings.
OTOH, What about in the vast majority of schools where no shooting has taken place because of the deterrent impact of armed SROs?
Got an estimate for that?
No, I don't and neither do those who study this issue. Again, it is a failed system only in place due to the money involved.

But the presence of security hasn’t definitively deterred attacks in the first place.

“We don’t have any rigorous causal evidence that says armed guards reduce school shootings or school violence,” said Matthew Mayer, a professor at Rutgers University who studies violence in educational settings.
In the 25 shootings in the ALERRT study that targeted schools, none were brought to an end by armed staff, guards or police officers returning fire. These shootings most commonly ended when the shooters were restrained by unarmed staff.
https://www.thetrace.org/2019/04/gun...ool-shootings/
anonymous_coward is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:43 AM
  #150  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Coral Springs, FL, USA
Posts: 433
Default

Find answers here. Police response starts on page 87. You need 3 things to be successful in this type of incident: training, equipment, and leadership. You can make up for a shortage in training and equipment with leadership, but without leadership your done. I'm not talking about command leadership though it plays a role, I'm talking about individual leaders acting and thus others follow. No one instructed our guys to go in, they know their job and did it. Hell we had a sergeant watering the ball fields off duty and he ran toward the building. He was in shorts, t-shirt, and flip flops. The issue with Peterson isn't just about him not going in it is the information he gave to other deputies to stay out. Our first officer on scene got the same intel from the same person that Peterson did. He didn't tell our officers to set up a perimeter, lock down the building, and block off traffic he told us where to go and a description of the suspect. This was clear in what he said even giving the description and location. Remember this school is not in our jurisdiction. His transmissions has been described as beam of light telling us where to go. Peterson's transmissions told his fellow deputies to lock down the school. Even with bad info or if officers/deputies hesitate it is up to the first supervisor to get them going. They could see the bullet holes in the building. That deputy sergeant stayed on Holmberg Road and never advanced or instructed anyone to make entry. You have to do the infantry Iron Mike "follow me".

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/MSDHS/CommissionReport.pdf
gs535 is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 09:47 AM
  #151  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Augustine, Fl
Posts: 21,829
Default

Many times in our job (LE) things are way more complicated than they need to be. Being a good LEO is not that complicated it means having these characteristics or developing them.

1. Always doing the right
2. Being honest
3. Handle the situation or problem, dont leave it for others to deal with.
4. Dont be afraid of aggressive citizens
5. Know the law
6. Listen when needed
7. Good common sense
8. Most of all, be sure you are in job for the right reason (to help others. to protect the innocent)
9. Watch each others back
10. Needs repeating ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING..

Last edited by Cracker; 06-06-2019 at 10:42 AM.
Cracker is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:36 AM
  #152  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 88
Default

He isn’t being condemned for not taking “heroic” action. He is being charged for hiding behind a concrete wall while kids were being murdered under his watch. See page 98 of the report.

He was a trained sheriff’s deputy with thousands upon thousands of rounds of practice with his firearm. In close corridors, the pistol could have actually worked to his advantage. I believe Peterson would have done the same inactions no matter what type of gun Cruz had.

Statistics show that mass shooters commit suicide once resistance is encountered (police presence).

Salty Gator4 is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:13 AM
  #153  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Breaux Bridge, Louisiana
Posts: 124
Default

If you ever worked in a school you'd see exactly why teachers aren't armed. Some are very unstable.
Domoe is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 02:31 PM
  #154  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Garden City, Utah
Posts: 178
Default

Utah has always allowed it's teachers to carry concealed. There's also never been a mass school shooting in Utah. Coincidence? My brother and his wife are both teachers and both carry daily. If a teacher wants to be able to protect themselves and their students it shouldn't be prevented. The commonality with all of these shooters are they're cowards going after soft targets.
autobaun70 likes this.
Twahl is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:28 PM
  #155  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunny florida
Posts: 23,034
Default

Originally Posted by Salty Gator4 View Post
He isn’t being condemned for not taking “heroic” action. He is being charged for hiding behind a concrete wall while kids were being murdered under his watch. See page 98 of the report.

He was a trained sheriff’s deputy with thousands upon thousands of rounds of practice with his firearm. In close corridors, the pistol could have actually worked to his advantage. I believe Peterson would have done the same inactions no matter what type of gun Cruz had.

Statistics show that mass shooters commit suicide once resistance is encountered (police presence).

If..If..If the "system" in Broward county had worked, this event would never have occurred. Now we have to listen to snot nosed kids expounding on matters of which they don't have a clue.
billinstuart is offline  
Old 06-06-2019, 04:02 PM
  #156  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Danvers, MA
Posts: 909
Default

Originally Posted by nccoaster View Post
I agree this is grandstanding. Sure, the officer was not up to doing the job he was hired to do. But charging him with a crime? That is a BS can of worms. There are other routes to take to make sure that he is never put in that position again.

Does then next LEO in that situation think, "What should I do? I might be charged if I don't do something? I don't want to get charged, I had better go in guns blazing."

Hell no, you either have it in you or you don't. You don't have all that time to think.
Yeah, even aside from the grandstanding, is cowardice a crime? Not sure it is, even for a cop. Maybe in the military cowardice would get you court marshalled but I don't think this is the same. No guarantee his going in would've made a difference so at the most he failed at his job, but that's not a crime.
Hatem is offline  
Old 06-08-2019, 02:22 PM
  #157  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Burbs of the Motor City
Posts: 6,316
Default

Originally Posted by Hatem View Post
Yeah, even aside from the grandstanding, is cowardice a crime? Not sure it is, even for a cop. Maybe in the military cowardice would get you court marshalled but I don't think this is the same. No guarantee his going in would've made a difference so at the most he failed at his job, but that's not a crime.
To say "no guarantee his going in would've made a difference" would be like saying why send anyone

If no one goes in it's safe to say more would have been slain by this killer.
magua is offline  
Old 06-08-2019, 04:13 PM
  #158  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunny florida
Posts: 23,034
Default

Hundreds of people screwed up and allowed this event to go as far as it did. How about THEM having some culbability??
billinstuart is offline  
Old 06-08-2019, 05:59 PM
  #159  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Danvers, MA
Posts: 909
Default

Originally Posted by magua View Post
To say "no guarantee his going in would've made a difference" would be like saying why send anyone

If no one goes in it's safe to say more would have been slain by this killer.
Are you saying that a coward, who couldn't even bring himself to go in and confront this terrible situation would've altered the unfortunate outcome by even one life? How could anyone possibly guarantee that?

It's not the same. No one is advocating for no one going in. Even if it was possible to prove that he would've saved one life, is cowardice, by a LEO in a life or death scenario even a chargeable crime? Let alone one that could possibly carry a 96-1/2 year prison sentence?
Hatem is offline  
Old 06-08-2019, 06:05 PM
  #160  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rocky Point FL
Posts: 8,439
Default

Starts at the top with shit head Israel and the superintendent and their whacked out policies and procedures. I certainly don't think other departments in Florida would've allowed this type of passive response.
joe.giuliano likes this.
r.waddill is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread