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Alcohol addiction sucks!!!

Old 05-01-2019, 09:22 AM
  #81  
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I'm not an expert, but I do know almost everyone fails the first time they try and quit anything addictive. Many have to hit rock bottom, it took a a relative year in jail to finally quit. You seem to know it's not good for you so keep trying.

Failure is the key to success; each mistake teaches us something.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/m...?src=t_failure
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by joe.giuliano View Post
Better option would be to have the self control to stop but...
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
Baldwin is a Scientology center, isn't it?

I believe some of the above is true, and that if the disease concept were presented to the AMA today, without precedent, it may be rejected. But the influence of social and family ties "diminishing" during the industrial revolution is likely nonsense and where this turns into a pitch. I'd love to see their support for that claim.
How about these opinions from Doctors that discounts addiction as a disease?
https://www.rehabs.com/pro-talk-arti...itional-views/
https://nypost.com/2015/07/12/addict...addicts-wrong/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...really-disease

I could keep going all day long but the point is that there is no medical evidence of any addiction being a disease. Those who have this view keep relying on the fact that the brain changes when subjected to addictive substances for a long period f time. That is true but the brain changes from many experiences even emotional experiences such as falling in love. It changes if you are exposed to oscillating red and green lights. The brain changes as you develop your passion for boating. The point is that the change is not irreversible or an end state.

The reason addiction has been labeled and is keep being pushed as a disease by our Gov't is political. Our society during the last 50 years in general doesn't like accountability in many areas of life and this is no different. Plus...the "disease" label opens the floodgates for federal money into an industry that is completely failing at the rehabilitation of addicts.

Let me ask those who claim addiction is a disease. If it is a disease than why does every person on earth have this disease? If you continually feed alcohol or opiates to any person for an extended period of time then thier brain goes through changes which causes dependency and the way dopamine is released. This affects EVERY individual. OTOH...name me a person who is born addicted or becomes addicted without being exposed to the substance for more than once?

I'm not claiming addiction isn't a problem. Hell....my whole family is full of addicts. My mother is an addict who went to jail twice and is still battling addiction. But if addiction is "passed down", then why am I not an addict? I have an opiate pump in my stomach around the clock but I live a normal life without addiction.

Like I said before...I feel for addicts but I put my money where my mouth is. I spend hundreds of hours a year of my free time trying to help them. But the first thing they need to realize is that it is a choice and since it's a choice then they have the power to stop. It is not hopeless like the "disease" excuse seems to imply. Once they realize this then they can make the hard, hard effort to give up their addiction.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:10 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Re-Bait View Post
A complete and total waste of space. Author is devoid of ANY knowledge on the subject and his reviews is bull crud from the first sentence to the last.

I always enjoy when someone who has ZERO knowledge of the 12 steps tries to pontificate on the subject. I take especially umbrage when they make false statements. Which he does repeatedly thru out his fake analysis. If he had ever even read the big book he'd know that AA never EVER says theirs is the only way.

Take that crud and use it as toilet paper. And ask all those scientists how would they treat someone who's been in 25 rehabs? People are spending billions on a simple path that's free for the taking.
Author would be a great fit for THT.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
How about these opinions from Doctors that discounts addiction as a disease?
https://www.rehabs.com/pro-talk-arti...itional-views/
https://nypost.com/2015/07/12/addict...addicts-wrong/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...really-disease

I could keep going all day long but the point is that there is no medical evidence of any addiction being a disease. Those who have this view keep relying on the fact that the brain changes when subjected to addictive substances for a long period f time. That is true but the brain changes from many experiences even emotional experiences such as falling in love. It changes if you are exposed to oscillating red and green lights. The brain changes as you develop your passion for boating. The point is that the change is not irreversible or an end state.

The reason addiction has been labeled and is keep being pushed as a disease by our Gov't is political. Our society during the last 50 years in general doesn't like accountability in many areas of life and this is no different. Plus...the "disease" label opens the floodgates for federal money into an industry that is completely failing at the rehabilitation of addicts.

Let me ask those who claim addiction is a disease. If it is a disease than why does every person on earth have this disease? If you continually feed alcohol or opiates to any person for an extended period of time then thier brain goes through changes which causes dependency and the way dopamine is released. This affects EVERY individual. OTOH...name me a person who is born addicted or becomes addicted without being exposed to the substance for more than once?

I'm not claiming addiction isn't a problem. Hell....my whole family is full of addicts. My mother is an addict who went to jail twice and is still battling addiction. But if addiction is "passed down", then why am I not an addict? I have an opiate pump in my stomach around the clock but I live a normal life without addiction.

Like I said before...I feel for addicts but I put my money where my mouth is. I spend hundreds of hours a year of my free time trying to help them. But the first thing they need to realize is that it is a choice and since it's a choice then they have the power to stop. It is not hopeless like the "disease" excuse seems to imply. Once they realize this then they can make the hard, hard effort to give up their addiction.
Ok, let's call it a disorder then. How does that change anything?
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:29 PM
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Yah, once I was told I had a drinking problem, I said 'whaaaat? I miss a round?' - Dean Martin to Frank Sinatra live at the Sands, Las Vegas.
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:32 PM
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This may sound stupid but it works for me. Get a healthy hobby; strength training, running, biking, what ever. Set goals to improve and take note of the improvements however small they may be. You are never too old to start. Really work at it and give it some time & effort so you can be proud of the accomplishments. You won't want to poison your body and throw away all the work you have done.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:25 PM
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I certainly won't try to change anyone's mind about what this or that doctor said. There will always be opinions both ways no matter what. As for the OP, from some of his responses it is clearly obvious he is not ready to admit defeat and try to find a solution. I hope you find your bottom without causing your or someone else's death or severe injury. THERE IS A SOLUTION. When you are really ready for it reach out to many of us on this thread that have found it.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by burtonboards32 View Post


Reread the post I quoted...

Example: I wake up up every day and do the same exact thing. Alarm is set for the same time, get to work at the same time, typically eat the same things - I am on a routine out of habit. Could I change something about what I do? Absolutely. Am I addicted to my routine, my habits? No.

The OP admittedly has one drink and doesn’t stop. He can’t stop. Addicts cannot necessarily just stop as suggested in the post that I quoted, so I respectfully disagreed with his opinion.
Your routine has nothing to do with an addicts choice. You stated that the OP didn't have a choice and that he cannot stop and that is flat out wrong. It's not even a subject for debate. By saying the OP doesn't have a choice implies that he cannot ever stop and kick his addiction. He can and if he survives the bottom he hits, it will be his choice to make the hard decision to start the road to recovery.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
Ok, let's call it a disorder then. How does that change anything?
It matters because my response that denied the "disease" aspect was trying to show the OP that he has a choice and he can choose to make himself better. The "disease" label tends to make addicts loose hope because they feel they were born this way and really have no choice. Basically, they tend to feel sorry for themselves and use the "disease" label as an excuse. No one with a disease can simply decide to cure themselves. They have to seek medicine or let the body run it's course naturally. Every addict decided to start their abuse at one time and every addict who has ever beat it, simply decided to stop the addiction. The OP can will himself to stop alcohol abuse at any moment he chooses. He may have to wean down to stop withdrawals but the bottom line is that it is entirely up to him. I'm pulling for him and hopefully he will decide right now to stop and get in a program.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joe.giuliano View Post
Thanks for that post, Joe, very informative.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:35 PM
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The term neuroplasticity is becoming more and more accepted, the concept is pretty straightforward - train your brain. The trouble is that it isn't easy but the good news is that brain responses to different stimuli can be changed by repetative effort. For some its religion, others (like me) marriage and kids and others see the signs and do it out of self-preservation. Whatever works but the key is to tell yourself over and over there is another way and that its better. Once the benefits start kicking in it gets easier and nearly everyone will loose some "friends" and find trigger situations they just can't do anymore. I went from smoking ciggies and pot daily and drinking plenty all the time to a non-smoking father of 2 boys who has a beer after work a few days a week. Find a motivation and start retraining your brain!
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:57 PM
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Drinking changes the way I THINK in a very Negative way . Even taking a month off didn't make a difference . It took 7 months of sobriety and one day I felt it . Not like it was in the movie " Limitless " but when I realized it , it was that sudden . I had been mulling over a problem and realized I had thought threw the problem past the point where I would normally get frustrated and over the next couple months it became Very apparent to me that my mind was functioning at least 10% BETTER . Something like that touches everything you do and everybody you know for the better . I think I see the world in a whole new more understanding way . I had 2 decades of Heavy drinking , say 7 - 8 beers a night with all day weekend drinking with many blackouts .

How I quit - My lungs got burned at work by an industrial coolant and after CT scans , specialists and a lung biopsy doc tells me there's nothing they can do . Take care of yourself and you could last another 20 yrs but eventually it's gonna Kill you . Sitting around 78% lung cap for a guy my age but will get worse . After that my desire to drink JUST left - friends noticed first by lack of beer around for I never made a decision to quit and 2 wks turned into a month then 3 now approaching 2 years . No matter how old you are you owe it to yourself to take a year off drinking to see if it uncovers anything if you suspect it's a problem . With me it opened a giant can of worms but with a clear mind it is an eye opener what you are capable of and what you can handle - it's " Here, hold my Beer " without the beer but with more success ..... Generally ��

When in doubt QUIT when it comes to alcohol - the addiction is Insidious as it hides the reason for it's existence and poses as a solution you don't question . Looking at your relationships with people that are ... or should be ... important in your life will tell you a lot ... hence ... can of worms hahaha

I don't know why this makes me think of Alcoholism other then for me it became much more complicated than simply not drinking ... it's hard , painful , exciting and liberating if you've made a real mess of things



... Good Luck

Last edited by ed d; 05-01-2019 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:16 PM
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I am Irish German who loved beer but I quit cold turkey about 5 years ago and to get past the urge to drink, I used to lurk on this forum and read the horror stories of true alcoholics. Good luck and cutting this poison out of your life is well worth it.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...mers-recovery/
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:22 PM
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Vivitrol
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by r_ventura_23 View Post
i got banned for using this word......i expect the same thing to happen here.
😭
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wangotango321 View Post
Vivitrol
Suppose to last a month. . That's the rage, give em something to make em feel better. Unfortunately we see people die on it
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by r_ventura_23 View Post
i got banned for using this word......i expect the same thing to happen here.
stfu.
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Re-Bait View Post
Suppose to last a month. . That's the rage, give em something to make em feel better. Unfortunately we see people die on it
I would be curious to see a differential analysis on outcomes with and without.

I mean people die who don't have vivitrol as an option, too. The goal should be maximum efficacy, not ideological purity. If it turns out that we can help more addicts with a simple drug than by enrolling them in AA, then at the very least we should keep that arrow in the quiver.

My wife works in a field that involves a lot of data analysis of medical outcomes, although she is more on the pandemic side than the lifestyle wellness side. Still, she goes to conferences with guys like Bruce Alexander and John Sinclair and every time the actual addiction experts talk, it seems to end the same way: they say we don't really know why some people become addicts, but that the overwhelming majority of people will never spiral out of control and they can moderate their usage with some behavioral therapy and support. A smaller group benefits from medical intervention like vivitrol. A tiny group of people are train wrecks who may be able to replace their fixation on alcohol or drugs with a fixation on something else.

I don't have any direct experience with the AA model but everyone I personally know who went through it considers it a cult. Most of those people now have pretty normal, light drinking habits and productive lives.
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by back at it View Post
Try cigars in place of beer then stop altogether. I enjoy a good chew of grizzly with a cigar whilst playing golf, that limits my beer intake.
Cigars have helped me with avoid the unwind from work stress drinks that would turn into 15 on a Tuesday night. Been sober for 2 months and starting to not miss it. Next step is replace cigars for the gym.
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