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Patent Applications - Anyone??

Old 04-18-2019, 04:50 PM
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Default Patent Applications - Anyone??

I too, like others before me, hate the term brain-trust but here it is. I have a mind for new stuff, intriguing stuff. So much so that I understand how Tesla lost it all with a kind heart. So I'm asking if anyone here has been through the patent experience and where it lead. I have several, I mean a bunch but no single idea has surfaced until now making things real. Enough so that I hesitate bringing anyone into the mix until I know it's protected. Flamers and trolls go away; I fully understand the pitfalls, naysayers, etc but no worries as new stuff comes nearly daily and certainly weekly when I let it in. All I have to do is think and stuff comes in. Enough so I'm thinking of maybe introducing a lower tier idea to see how it goes. Then come in later with more valuable stuff.

I really, really would like to hear real life experiences......if there are any out there.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:56 PM
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Talk to a patent attorney, before anything else. I hired a patent consulting firm that cost 32k for 2 ideas, total waste of money.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:58 PM
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You get what you pay for in general for attorneys. Good patents are not cheap and there is a huge difference between just getting a patent and getting one that will stand up for the long haul. The spectrum of attorneys as far as skill goes is enormous. Research to find the reputable ones.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:01 PM
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It's not that hard to find a decent patent attorney. It is a lot of paperwork, a lot of waiting, and a moderate amount of money to get a patent issued. And once it is issued, all it really gives you is the right to sue (spend more money) infringers.

If you are an independent guy, you would likely be FAR better off trying to productize your idea into something profitable first. Keep good notes, in a bound notebook with dates, that would *likely* be enough to show "prior art" in a typical case if you actually wound up in the super rare scenario where somebody else tries to patent your idea first.

If your grand idea is so easy to steal that just sharing the concept with a few close people puts it at risk, then odds are it will not turn out to be a very valuable idea in the end.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by junepoon View Post
Talk to a patent attorney, before anything else. I hired a patent consulting firm that cost 32k for 2 ideas, total waste of money.
Why the waste of money?
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:17 PM
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Highly recommend a visit to uspto.gov and become real familiar with the process. Then self-search and apply on one of your minor ideas. This will be invaluable to you when you are paying counsel in earnest.

Your notebooks and records are useful, until you face earnest infringement. You will lose.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:28 PM
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This is a tough game. I am the holder of 2, because my company files for all manner of things that its people come up with, to use in horse trading with other corps, organizational prestige, who knows what. I would never consider it as a little guy. As a little guy, you are going up against companies like mine with very deep pockets and tens of thousands of creative employees, protecting ideas basically, because they can. Stuff they've they've done, stuff they might do, stuff they have no intention of ever doing.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ronp364 View Post
This is a tough game. I am the holder of 2, because my company files for all manner of things that its people come up with, to use in horse trading with other corps, organizational prestige, who knows what. I would never consider it as a little guy. As a little guy, you are going up against companies like mine with very deep pockets and tens of thousands of creative employees, protecting ideas basically, because they can. Stuff they've they've done, stuff they might do, stuff they have no intention of ever doing.
Yep. The very reason the little guy has to protect his own IP.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:36 PM
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I have many patents (and trademarks). My thoughts are they are not worthwhile unless you are in the business that they will be used and use them. Meaning I already manufacturer products and have patents on some of our products-- so it is worth it. However I would not patent something that i randomly have an idea on and then try and start a business or try and sell or license the patent. The patent process is too expensive and too long to take on as start-up. if you are pursuing an unknown, a new business, or not in the industry that the patent is in, the chances that you dont get the patent, or are not successful with the idea, concept or business are too big and not worth the risk/expense/time. Plus if you are not in that industry it is too easy for an existing player to go around the patent or change a few things and still carry out the idea.

If you are still gung-ho file a provisional patent ot hold your place in line as the first use date while you figure it all out.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:39 PM
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I had an idea for something and I built it for myself. It works very well and in fact I've seen threads on here asking for such an item. I've debated on trying to get a patent and build it, or just try to build and sell it and hope that I can get enough of the market that it is lucrative for me.

Does anyone know if it is true that someone could take an item that you patented and make some changes to the design and have it change enough that they wouldn't be violating your patent? That's my concern about paying 5 figures to get a patent and then have someone modify my design and be able to sell it without infringing on my patent. I probably wouldn't have enough money to fight it.

<EDIT> Its looks like Griffin answered my question at the same time I was asking it. He must be smart.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GulfC View Post
Why the waste of money?
the people I hired were very little help, and before the process was finished they went out of business. The attorneys did twice as much for me in half the time. Therefore much cheaper. The firm was a bad experience for me, but I am sure there are good ones out there.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:42 PM
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For a small guy it has been my experience that the patent is not practical.

Lets say you get the patent after spending a lot of money and now a company is infringing on it. Do you have the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight them in court for a long period of time? What if it is a company based out of China?

My end decision was that it was better to skip the patent.

Just ny 2 cents.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Highly recommend a visit to uspto.gov and become real familiar with the process. Then self-search and apply on one of your minor ideas. This will be invaluable to you when you are paying counsel in earnest.

Your notebooks and records are useful, until you face earnest infringement. You will lose.
Deal is the problem came up maybe 8 years ago and been percolating like many other things. Interest peaked about 7 months ago so interest on solution went up proportionately.... the problem was costing money. So the solution materialized probably 5 months ago. Other stuff was going on so only visioned solutions. Soooooo about 2 months ago I dialed in on the solution and built a prototype to see if it worked... it did. Changed materials a couple times and tweaked to perfection. Current "in work" prototypes are literally perfect. And I have no clue why it isn't already on the market. Trust me it would be if available.

I have records. Just got an instant camera, totally web free for pics. Talked to a patent attorney literally today. I have no interest in fighting, there will be more to come. Anyone that fights for a single idea will lose the war. I have searched and searched; ideas are all around but not where I've dialed in on.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:51 PM
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Do a search lots of threads on here. I’ve applied for 2. 480k each.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:57 PM
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I have a bunch of patents and I'm familiar with the process and have some contacts that I'd recommend if think you have something original and worthwhile
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Wreckdiver13 View Post
I have a bunch of patents and I'm familiar with the process and have some contacts that I'd recommend if think you have something original and worthwhile
Excellent! If possible could you pm someone trustworthy to do a thorough search? That's where I am on this idea right now. Also, how do you protect what you have from the onset?
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rickpcfl View Post
I had an idea for something and I built it for myself. It works very well and in fact I've seen threads on here asking for such an item. I've debated on trying to get a patent and build it, or just try to build and sell it and hope that I can get enough of the market that it is lucrative for me.

Does anyone know if it is true that someone could take an item that you patented and make some changes to the design and have it change enough that they wouldn't be violating your patent? That's my concern about paying 5 figures to get a patent and then have someone modify my design and be able to sell it without infringing on my patent. I probably wouldn't have enough money to fight it.

<EDIT> Its looks like Griffin answered my question at the same time I was asking it. He must be smart.
I guess my view on this is flavored by being in the software business, but when it comes to software and business process, there are so many small variations on what some would think was a basic idea that they will accept and grant a patent on. It becomes very hard to say someone is infringing on your idea and not pursuing some significant variation of it of their own invention.

Everybody always thinks in the context of "better mousetrap". But I understand there are over 4000 patents for mousetraps. Just think about that.

My two are numbered in the 7 millions. That's a lot of patents. When they are granting them for very fine shadings of ideas, the odds that someone can cover themselves and go around you with some minor difference, I would say are very high. And then if you are paying for pricey lawyer time to get one, well...
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ronp364 View Post
I guess my view on this is flavored by being in the software business, but when it comes to software and business process, there are so many small variations on what some would think was a basic idea that they will accept and grant a patent on. It becomes very hard to say someone is infringing on your idea and not pursuing some significant variation of it of their own invention.

Everybody always thinks in the context of "better mousetrap". But I understand there are over 4000 patents for mousetraps. Just think about that.

My two are numbered in the 7 millions. That's a lot of patents. When they are granting them for very fine shadings of ideas, the odds that someone can cover themselves and go around you with some minor difference, I would say are very high. And then if you are paying for pricey lawyer time to get one, well...
I own a small software company and we discussed getting a patent when we first started. We decided that it was too easy to work around it and that it wasn't worth our time. We have a few competitors, but none that do it the way we do and we have a very good reputation in our industry. I think someone off the streets could copy our software and still not be much of a threat to us because people in our industry (student transportation) are probably more concerned with WHO they are doing business with as much as what they are offering. I realize that isn't unique to our industry.

Based on your answer and the ones above, I think I'm going to skip the patent process on my boating related idea and just document the idea and dates to protect myself from someone suing me for infringement. I'm not worried about a legitimate suit as I have not seen anything that looks like my design.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:21 PM
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The patent you get protects your investment from infringement claims by others. If one invests in bringing an innovation to market he is potentially exposed to damages equal to his entire investment plus all revenue he generated attributable to that innovation if he can’t defend himself against an infringement claim. No big deal until the money is real.

*** google Wawrzynski dip and squeeze suit to see it in action

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Old 04-18-2019, 06:28 PM
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Why in hell does it have to be so expensive??
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