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Old 10-10-2018, 12:18 PM
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I wanted to respond to the nonsense posted by Xfernal and Bills in the original thread but it was closed before I got chance. For you two to claim Rick S doesn't have support or evidence for what he posts is just ludicrous and does more to disparage your position on the trawling subject than his. If there is ever anyone that provides support for their posts and position, it is Rick S . It amazes me where he finds all the data/support/evidence he puts in his posts, much less the time it must take to gather and post it. If you so disagree with the data, how about one of you post some evidence to dispute it other than "that study is old", or "that doesn't happen on every tow." That won't happen though because there isn't such any evidence. Yeah, so the 4.5-1 by-catch ratio is a little dated. It still came from about as impartial a study as we will ever get. Produce a more recent and comparable study to refute it. Can't be done because the commercial lobby won't allow a legitimate, impartial study now because they know that "dated" study is accurate and they are afraid of the results of any new study.

Take a look at the videos Rick posted, they are much more recent than the study and actually from commercial trawlers themselves. How can you possibly say Rick hasn't provided valid evidence for his posts and that those videos are not proof that by-catch is a problem. Just take for example the video from the Birdie P where the captain plainly says, "there's shrimp there." And when you look at the mess on the deck, it clearly shows much more by-catch than shrimp. It isn't possible to say what the ratio is from that video but, it is a lot closer to 4.5-1 by-catch to shrimp than not, if not worse. And yes, I have personally seen the results from otter trawls on numerous occasions, although on a much smaller scale than those industrial strength boats, and was disgusted by the amount of small finfish and other by-catch that came aboard. So those videos are not isolated, cherry-picked incidents.

Bottom line is, the Pamlico Sound is nothing but a huge nursery for all those animals you see come up in trawl tail bags, and it is not an area we should allow a piece of equipment that does the destruction that an otter trawl does. So, continue to deny, defend, deflect and finally, when you can't dispute the facts and evidence, resort to threats like you did in the closed thread and one day, there will be so few fish and crabs that by-catch won't be a problem anymore.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:01 PM
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Squid Row View Post
Ain't no fun in not doing it, we all need to get some rods in our hands soon, all this tropical weather has us stoved up away from the water.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:21 PM
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Batter,Batter,Batter, DingBatter.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:33 PM
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Not so much a problem with Ric's data as much as his own interpretation of it. Kinda hard to interpret data accurately when one has already formed their conclusion.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:15 PM
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Goodness gracious dude
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:29 PM
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I know there are large vessels trawling in the Pamlico that should be offshore. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I know that the weakfish, spot and croaker fisheries in NC are terrible. I've seen them plummet in my lifetime.

I know water quality is not the major issue, because the Pamlico is alive with bait, porpoises, pelicans and big drum. I saw this one week after hurricane Florence, when some were predicting water quality Armageddon.

I know predation by birds is not the major issue, because the pogies would be impacted as much or more so than the spot and croaker.

I can draw a straight line between the industrial scale shrimp trawling in the sounds and the demise of the weakfish, spot and croaker, which are the most common bycatch. It's not a scientific observation, because it's backed only by my own reasoning and observation. But I'm sticking to it until someone convinces me otherwise.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by abfish View Post
I know there are large vessels trawling in the Pamlico that should be offshore. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I know that the weakfish, spot and croaker fisheries in NC are terrible. I've seen them plummet in my lifetime.

I know water quality is not the major issue, because the Pamlico is alive with bait, porpoises, pelicans and big drum. I saw this one week after hurricane Florence, when some were predicting water quality Armageddon.

I know predation by birds is not the major issue, because the pogies would be impacted as much or more so than the spot and croaker.

I can draw a straight line between the industrial scale shrimp trawling in the sounds and the demise of the weakfish, spot and croaker, which are the most common bycatch. It's not a scientific observation, because it's backed only by my own reasoning and observation. But I'm sticking to it until someone convinces me otherwise.
I know you know but never under estimate over fishing but I know you know.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by abfish View Post
I know there are large vessels trawling in the Pamlico that should be offshore. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I know that the weakfish, spot and croaker fisheries in NC are terrible. I've seen them plummet in my lifetime.

I know water quality is not the major issue, because the Pamlico is alive with bait, porpoises, pelicans and big drum. I saw this one week after hurricane Florence, when some were predicting water quality Armageddon.

I know predation by birds is not the major issue, because the pogies would be impacted as much or more so than the spot and croaker.

I can draw a straight line between the industrial scale shrimp trawling in the sounds and the demise of the weakfish, spot and croaker, which are the most common bycatch. It's not a scientific observation, because it's backed only by my own reasoning and observation. But I'm sticking to it until someone convinces me otherwise.
I can draw a straight line between drop netting on massive schools of gray trout found by airplane and their decline.

I can draw a line between overfishing in the Chesapeake and piers lined with people who each take a 48 qt or bigger cooler full of spots home every day during the run and fewer fish. Rec people really underestimate how many fish rec fishermen take, especially fish with no limits.. There need to be limits. Even fish like spot and croaker reach a critical point in the biomass where they can't replenish the population without help.

Shrimp trawling in the sounds is different than trawling in the narrow intracoastal like down in my area.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by N2theblue View Post
I can draw a straight line between drop netting on massive schools of gray trout found by airplane and their decline.

I can draw a line between overfishing in the Chesapeake and piers lined with people who each take a 48 qt or bigger cooler full of spots home every day during the run and fewer fish. Rec people really underestimate how many fish rec fishermen take, especially fish with no limits.. There need to be limits. Even fish like spot and croaker reach a critical point in the biomass where they can't replenish the population without help.

Shrimp trawling in the sounds is different than trawling in the narrow intracoastal like down in my area.
The only issue with that is if regulations are made that change numbers for recreational fishermen, but nothing is done about trawling, how is that fair? Based on those videos, and those videos alone, we could give every person on a given pier enough fish for a couple meals.
This is why there needs to be an actual conservation effort, not one that attacks one side vs. the other, 50 spots per person per day would be plenty, but how do you limit the trawlers without them saying "just another move to remove shrimping from the industry"??
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:43 AM
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have any of you ever wondered why Louisiana which has 10 x's (on average) the shrimp trawl landings as does NC along with the fact that Louisiana does not even require their shrimpers to use bycatch reduction devices, has some of the best sportsfishing in the Country? One would assume that with all the bycatch in Louisiana that it would be a hard job to find a trout, red drum. croaker or spot. Some of you need to think for yourselves instead of reading and believing the printed matter printed or spoken by interest groups who's primary goal is to do away with commercial fishing nets. Perhaps It was not accurate of me to say that these group want to do away with commercial fishermen and more accurate to say that they simply wanted to do away with nets. Then again I wonder how a farmer would get by if they were not allowed to use a tractor and a plow.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by N2theblue View Post
I can draw a straight line between drop netting on massive schools of gray trout found by airplane and their decline.

I can draw a line between overfishing in the Chesapeake and piers lined with people who each take a 48 qt or bigger cooler full of spots home every day during the run and fewer fish. Rec people really underestimate how many fish rec fishermen take, especially fish with no limits.. There need to be limits. Even fish like spot and croaker reach a critical point in the biomass where they can't replenish the population without help.

Shrimp trawling in the sounds is different than trawling in the narrow intracoastal like down in my area.
I don't think you would find anyone who supports getting the big shrimp trawls out of Pamlico sound who wouldn't also support a rec limit on spot/croaker or any other fish for that matter. But I guess some people think that if you want to limit shrimp trawling in the sound you are part of a grand conspiracy to develop the coast lines and reap the rewards from future loans and insurance premiums (I've heard people who believe this).

Bycatch is clearly a concern as if it wasn't the scientist wouldn't be spending tons of taxpayer/fee/license money trying to prevent it if it was not.

Shrimp trawling is different in big open sounds as these are nursery areas for juvenile fish.

Instead of spending all this money trying fix a system that clearly has a lot of collateral damage, why isn't money spent trying to develop new ways to catch shrimp? I am pretty dumb but there are plenty of smart people out there who if given an incentive to do so, could probably come up with some unique solutions.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gillnetflounderman View Post
have any of you ever wondered why Louisiana which has 10 x's (on average) the shrimp trawl landings as does NC along with the fact that Louisiana does not even require their shrimpers to use bycatch reduction devices, has some of the best sportsfishing in the Country? One would assume that with all the bycatch in Louisiana that it would be a hard job to find a trout, red drum. croaker or spot. Some of you need to think for yourselves instead of reading and believing the printed matter printed or spoken by interest groups who's primary goal is to do away with commercial fishing nets. Perhaps It was not accurate of me to say that these group want to do away with commercial fishermen and more accurate to say that they simply wanted to do away with nets. Then again I wonder how a farmer would get by if they were not allowed to use a tractor and a plow.
Louisiana also has shrimping seasons:The Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission set the opening dates for the fall inshore shrimp season based on information provided by LDWF biologists and public comments. Season openings are as follows:
  • The portion of state inside waters from the Mississippi/Louisiana state line westward to the Atchafalaya River Ship Channel at Eugene Island as delineated by the River Channel Buoy Line to open at 6 p.m. on August 13, 2018; and,
  • The portion of state inside waters from the Atchafalaya River Ship Channel at Eugene Island as delineated by the River Channel Buoy Line westward to the western shore of Freshwater Bayou to open at 6 a.m. on August 13, 2018; and,
  • The portion of state inside waters from the western shore of Freshwater Bayou westward to the Louisiana/Texas state line to open at 6 a.m. on. August 27, 2018.


Headope length is limited in inshore waters:
Inshore waters:regulations permit one trawl measuring 50 feet long or less along the corkline and 66 feet long or lessalong the lead line OR two trawls not exceeding 25 feet each along the corkline and 33 feet along the lead line, with trawldoors no more than 8 feet long and 43 inches high and no more than two inner sled doors. Each vessel may also pull a testtrawl*.

BRDs are still required in federal waters...what % of Louisana shrimp are actually caught in federal waters in the gulf?
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gillnetflounderman View Post
have any of you ever wondered why Louisiana which has 10 x's (on average) the shrimp trawl landings as does NC along with the fact that Louisiana does not even require their shrimpers to use bycatch reduction devices, has some of the best sportsfishing in the Country? One would assume that with all the bycatch in Louisiana that it would be a hard job to find a trout, red drum. croaker or spot. Some of you need to think for yourselves instead of reading and believing the printed matter printed or spoken by interest groups who's primary goal is to do away with commercial fishing nets. Perhaps It was not accurate of me to say that these group want to do away with commercial fishermen and more accurate to say that they simply wanted to do away with nets. Then again I wonder how a farmer would get by if they were not allowed to use a tractor and a plow.
Folks like to compare NC to other states when it fits their agenda.

So you're now comparing a net to a plow?

How do commercial fisherman survive in Florida?
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Old 10-11-2018, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nc23mako View Post
Louisiana also has shrimping seasons:The Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission set the opening dates for the fall inshore shrimp season based on information provided by LDWF biologists and public comments. Season openings are as follows:
  • The portion of state inside waters from the Mississippi/Louisiana state line westward to the Atchafalaya River Ship Channel at Eugene Island as delineated by the River Channel Buoy Line to open at 6 p.m. on August 13, 2018; and,
  • The portion of state inside waters from the Atchafalaya River Ship Channel at Eugene Island as delineated by the River Channel Buoy Line westward to the western shore of Freshwater Bayou to open at 6 a.m. on August 13, 2018; and,
  • The portion of state inside waters from the western shore of Freshwater Bayou westward to the Louisiana/Texas state line to open at 6 a.m. on. August 27, 2018.


Headope length is limited in inshore waters:
Inshore waters:regulations permit one trawl measuring 50 feet long or less along the corkline and 66 feet long or lessalong the lead line OR two trawls not exceeding 25 feet each along the corkline and 33 feet along the lead line, with trawldoors no more than 8 feet long and 43 inches high and no more than two inner sled doors. Each vessel may also pull a testtrawl*.

BRDs are still required in federal waters...what % of Louisana shrimp are actually caught in federal waters in the gulf?
Thanks for giving us some "facts" that tell more of the story, seems someone left that out above. Do they also still stock drum in LA?
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Old 10-11-2018, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by N2theblue View Post
I can draw a straight line between drop netting on massive schools of gray trout found by airplane and their decline.

I can draw a line between overfishing in the Chesapeake and piers lined with people who each take a 48 qt or bigger cooler full of spots home every day during the run and fewer fish. Rec people really underestimate how many fish rec fishermen take, especially fish with no limits.. There need to be limits. Even fish like spot and croaker reach a critical point in the biomass where they can't replenish the population without help.

Shrimp trawling in the sounds is different than trawling in the narrow intracoastal like down in my area.
N2theblue...
The flynet fishery South of Cape Hatteras combined with trawling in critical habitat nursery areas is what decimated the gray trout stock. Today gray trout are landed as bycatch (100 pound trip limit) in the Atlantic croaker drop net fishery, which by the way involves many of the multipurpose steel hulled trawlers that shrimp the deeper more open waters of the Pamlico Sound- the Secondary Nursery area of gray trout.

…airplane spotting of gray trout in the drop net fishery? Please tell me more about this.

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Old 10-11-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gillnetflounderman View Post
have any of you ever wondered why Louisiana which has 10 x's (on average) the shrimp trawl landings as does NC along with the fact that Louisiana does not even require their shrimpers to use bycatch reduction devices, has some of the best sportsfishing in the Country? One would assume that with all the bycatch in Louisiana that it would be a hard job to find a trout, red drum. croaker or spot. Some of you need to think for yourselves instead of reading and believing the printed matter printed or spoken by interest groups who's primary goal is to do away with commercial fishing nets. Perhaps It was not accurate of me to say that these group want to do away with commercial fishermen and more accurate to say that they simply wanted to do away with nets. Then again I wonder how a farmer would get by if they were not allowed to use a tractor and a plow.
Glen...Let's quit arguing and adopt Louisiana Commercial Shrimp Regulations...I will be more than happy-

















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Old 10-11-2018, 07:48 AM
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As a rec. I would wholeheartedly support limits on spot and croaker. I participated in the croaker fishery in the Chesapeake 15 years ago, just like lots of folks from southeastern NC who measured a trip's success in numbers of coolers taken home. I remember looking through the parking lot in Oyster, Virginia, and realizing that 90 percent of the license plates were from NC. We all went to Virginia because the spot and croaker fishing in NC was so bad. But I also remember thinking that Virginia should have rec limits on the croaker. Not sure why they did not, although a couple of folks from Virginia told me the croaker were "trash fish" and they didn't see any need to protect them.

So, as for limits, bring 'em on. I'll gladly not keep another inshore fish for five years if that's what it takes.
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Old 10-11-2018, 07:57 AM
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You do realize that Breton and Chandaleur Sounds allow shrimpers to use up to 130 ft of corkline and are considered inside waters. Its true they have 2 seasons for trawling, one for the spring/summer and the Fall/winter. Still can not understand why Louisiana can continue to have world class inshore rec fishing with all of the shrimping effort made in that area. That fact alone should make folks wonder if shrimp trawling is all that deadly to inshore fishing. Kinds reminds me of the BS that the sno-flakes are using to convince everyone that climate change has caused all of our problems and is the reason hurricanes are so destructive. The fact that many folks are building expensive homes and businesses on marsh land or along river banks does not seem to be a part of the problem. Not trying to suggest that bycatch is not a part of the problem but many other things can be blamed for the lack of spots beside the shrimpers.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gillnetflounderman View Post
You do realize that Breton and Chandaleur Sounds allow shrimpers to use up to 130 ft of corkline and are considered inside waters.
I do. I also realize that Breton and Chandaleur Sounds, while similar to the Pamlico Sound, are not an enclosed lagoon estuary open to the ocean only by three shallow inlets in 85-miles of shoreline-






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