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Recreational Golden Tilefish Closed

Old 06-14-2019, 02:01 PM
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Default Recreational Golden Tilefish Closed

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/bulle...lantic-june-17

Looks like the limit has already been met. Closed on the 17th.

Does anybody know if this is for south of Cape Hatteras, or north of Cape Hatteras, or both?
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:04 PM
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Well, we were able to get out this past Saturday and got our first golden...another got attacked by the tax man. Had a good time and it's a shame we can't go again until next year now that we kinda know what we are doing.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Fred View Post
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/bulle...lantic-june-17

Looks like the limit has already been met. Closed on the 17th.

Does anybody know if this is for south of Cape Hatteras, or north of Cape Hatteras, or both?
Ken, the border of the South Atlantic with the Mid Atlantic is the the Virginia line and closure should only be South... Time to go a little deeper for some broadbills, the boys had 4 yesterday.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by schoolsout1 View Post
Well, we were able to get out this past Saturday and got our first golden...another got attacked by the tax man. Had a good time and it's a shame we can't go again until next year now that we kinda know what we are doing.
how’d your banax work out?
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nb1214 View Post


how’d your banax work out?

Good, but I didn't have the hot hand. Was using 5lb weight and biggest fish I got was a small snowy. Reel never broke a sweat. The AQ has the 1500 and it was impressive. I'm ordering some more weights and can't wait to get back out there and look around for some other spots/other fish.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:48 PM
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Once again I wonder why the hell NC is lumped in with Florida! They eat up our quota and we hardly get a chance at them if they are trying to limit the catch down there, but it has Zero to do with fishing up here! Morons!
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kmacker69 View Post
Once again I wonder why the hell NC is lumped in with Florida! They eat up our quota and we hardly get a chance at them if they are trying to limit the catch down there, but it has Zero to do with fishing up here! Morons!
Bingo!

It is time to break up the South Atlantic into smaller regions. No way the ecosystem off hatteras is the same as key west. The Carolinas need to be split off the from FL and GA
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:54 AM
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Commercial season still open?
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ccat View Post
Commercial season still open?
Recs and Comms have different quotas

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Old 06-19-2019, 11:30 AM
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If you want to know just how phony the SAFMC has become:

They are using "reports" that 15,375 Golden Tilefish were landed recreationally in January and February. 15,375 fish were allegedly landed by RECS in January and February. Let that sink in...

They are using this bogus number to justify a full ban for the remainder of the year as the recreational quota is 2316 fish for the entire year. Yep, these fish are in so much trouble that nearly 7 times the annual quota can be caught in two months. Anyone want to be on the number they guess were landed outside of Florida?

So, if this bogus council follows the scams they pulled off with red snapper and black sea bass, they will almost certainly eliminate the recreational ACL by reducing it to zero over the next few years to make up for this overage

So yes, let's argue about commercial vs. recreational instead of focusing on the true enemy of all fishermen and that is the SAFMC
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Squid Row View Post
If you want to know just how phony the SAFMC has become:

They are using "reports" that 15,375 Golden Tilefish were landed recreationally in January and February. 15,375 fish were allegedly landed by RECS in January and February. Let that sink in...

They are using this bogus number to justify a full ban for the remainder of the year as the recreational quota is 2316 fish for the entire year. Yep, these fish are in so much trouble that nearly 7 times the annual quota can be caught in two months. Anyone want to be on the number they guess were landed outside of Florida?

So, if this bogus council follows the scams they pulled off with red snapper and black sea bass, they will almost certainly eliminate the recreational ACL by reducing it to zero over the next few years to make up for this overage

So yes, let's argue about commercial vs. recreational instead of focusing on the true enemy of all fishermen and that is the SAFMC

Common sense would close the commercial season since the take is higher and leave Rec season open longer. But like anything else fisheries wise the commercial side is taken care of first in a public resource.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:43 PM
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Golden Tiles closes rec June 17 2019

It isn't all of FL guys. In the same boat in C FL, we have to run out almost 40 miles to get to 600 feet.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ccat View Post
Common sense would close the commercial season since the take is higher and leave Rec season open longer. But like anything else fisheries wise the commercial side is taken care of first in a public resource.
Did you really type that? Shouldn't you have included a just kidding emoji or is your logic that twisted?

By your "common sense" any overages on the commercial side should shut down recs?

That the estimated number of fish landed is woefully inaccurate is the only common sense thing I see in all of this. That alone should be challenged and if (as I suspect) proven to be a complete fabrication or anomaly of their counting methodology, any other catch quantities using that same method should be tossed out as well.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
Did you really type that? Shouldn't you have included a just kidding emoji or is your logic that twisted?

By your "common sense" any overages on the commercial side should shut down recs?

That the estimated number of fish landed is woefully inaccurate is the only common sense thing I see in all of this. That alone should be challenged and if (as I suspect) proven to be a complete fabrication or anomaly of their counting methodology, any other catch quantities using that same method should be tossed out as well.
When commercial take makes up 97% of the ACL (over 330,000 pounds) with 3% (2,316 fish) left over for recreational anglers, that is fuct up beyond ways I cant imagine fuct up could get........

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/actio...l-catch-limits
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chad.sfds View Post
When commercial take makes up 97% of the ACL (over 330,000 pounds) with 3% (2,316 fish) left over for recreational anglers, that is fuct up beyond ways I cant imagine fuct up could get........

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/actio...l-catch-limits
I really wasn't talking about the allocation, just the method of estimating that ridiculous catch estimate. I think that's a huge underlying problem in all fisheries and their quotas.

As far as the allocation percentages go I happen to agree it should be more balanced. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think when the SAMFC decided to exert their control they based allocation on reported landings at the time. Like most deepwater species, the recreational catches were miniscule back then.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
I really wasn't talking about the allocation, just the method of estimating that ridiculous catch estimate. I think that's a huge underlying problem in all fisheries and their quotas.

As far as the allocation percentages go I happen to agree it should be more balanced. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think when the SAMFC decided to exert their control they based allocation on reported landings at the time. Like most deepwater species, the recreational catches were miniscule back then.

I dont know what their estimate methods are - does anyone? I have an inquiry in to NOAA for an explanation on where the 15,375 came from.. The more you dig, the more preposterous it gets.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
Did you really type that? Shouldn't you have included a just kidding emoji or is your logic that twisted?

By your "common sense" any overages on the commercial side should shut down recs?

That the estimated number of fish landed is woefully inaccurate is the only common sense thing I see in all of this. That alone should be challenged and if (as I suspect) proven to be a complete fabrication or anomaly of their counting methodology, any other catch quantities using that same method should be tossed out as well.
When commercials get 97% of the quota yes it makes more common sense at least to me. Not saying shut down the recs but allocate to where the closure affects the largest taker of a resource and allow recs to stay open longer. If somebody catching a handful of fish gets shut out of pool while someone taking tons remains open its pretty self explanatory.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:37 PM
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I find it appalling that at least through 2017 the Golden Tile landings estimates were derived from MRFSS data instead of MRIP data.
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/webdam/download/88278499

"In response to concerns about the coverage and quality of the MRFSS data, NMFS asked the National Academies to review current marine recreational fishing surveys and to make recommendations for improvements and possible alternative approaches. The report finds that current survey methods are inadequate to provide the quality and timeliness of data necessary to manage recreational fisheries." - rec_fish_brief_final.pdf

"All this being done is with bad data collected through the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistics Survey, called MRFSS. NCR Chairman, Dr. Patrick Sullivan, referred to MRFSS data as "fatally flawed.'" - https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...3hhrg79966.htm

It is because of this MRFSS review that MRIP was created. Why would they knowingly be using a junk algorithm to manage this species when nearly all other species are being managed via MRIP now?

I think the MRIP data is junk too when using it for deep water species. The fishing effort calculation has to be wrong, because there is no accounting of electric reels for recreational anglers. If anyone has ever dropped a 10# weight to 100+ fathoms and manually reeled it up, they would know that you are only interested in doing a couple of drops and you don't want to do it anymore. The fishing effort is undoubtedly a lot less for 100+ fathoms and if someone could produce the MRIP algorithm, I could prove that to be the case.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by xfernal View Post
I find it appalling that at least through 2017 the Golden Tile landings estimates were derived from MRFSS data instead of MRIP data.
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/webdam/download/88278499

"In response to concerns about the coverage and quality of the MRFSS data, NMFS asked the National Academies to review current marine recreational fishing surveys and to make recommendations for improvements and possible alternative approaches. The report finds that current survey methods are inadequate to provide the quality and timeliness of data necessary to manage recreational fisheries." - Attachment 1101062

"All this being done is with bad data collected through the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistics Survey, called MRFSS. NCR Chairman, Dr. Patrick Sullivan, referred to MRFSS data as "fatally flawed.'" - https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...3hhrg79966.htm

It is because of this MRFSS review that MRIP was created. Why would they knowingly be using a junk algorithm to manage this species when nearly all other species are being managed via MRIP now?

I think the MRIP data is junk too when using it for deep water species. The fishing effort calculation has to be wrong, because there is no accounting of electric reels for recreational anglers. If anyone has ever dropped a 10# weight to 100+ fathoms and manually reeled it up, they would know that you are only interested in doing a couple of drops and you don't want to do it anymore. The fishing effort is undoubtedly a lot less for 100+ fathoms and if someone could produce the MRIP algorithm, I could prove that to be the case.
If you think this makes you insane, consider us the commercial fisherman. South Atlantic from North Carolina to Keywest. Our paper trail can cover over a million roles of Toilet paper. We have to deal on a daily bases a continues surveillance of satellite tracking paper trail and whatever else is imposed. They close our season also, yet with many species the Recreational side is still open BS!! There is no legitimate recording of recreational catches. Let alone what NOAA does except shoot from the hip on a Guess nothing more. Perfect example are Yellowtail Snapper is closed because we met the Quota. Yet Recreational is still open. Go Figure??? How do you know how many Yellowtails Recreational are catching if there is no reporting done??
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:22 PM
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And now we reach the stage where both sides should be on somewhat of agreement. Two different species and two different "management" decisions, neither of which is based on science or data but both enrage effected fishery participants for similar reasons.

Can the adults in the room recognize the common denominator and work together to force the issue or will it turn into the usual rec vs. comm pissing match?
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