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Recreational Golden Tilefish Closed

Old 06-21-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by offshore3144 View Post
I would think with all the bright mind@ in Raliegh(pun intended) someone could create a App for reporting??? I don't know of many people that don't always carry a phone with them. Do a App like fish rules but add reporting to it. Might be to easy.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be waaaaaay better than the BS guesswork that goes on now. It also would make regional decisions much more accurate.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:14 PM
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Not sure how phone gps works, but apps will get your numbers, I’d imagine.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Grunts N Grits View Post
By here, you mean FL? Whats closed all sides?
Commercial harvest in state water? Year around or just closed this year already?

East coast federal waters long line closed but hook and line commercial is still open.
And question still stands I will rephrase it.
Do fish recs catch in state water count against the EEZ managed rec TAC?
Yeah at this point down here there is no real state waters any more. I mean yeah technically there is but when fishing commercial because almost all are Federal regulated species. So basically it follows to the higher power the Feds. Gulf play a different role is Fed. but it work with the IFQ programs. Meaning if a particular fisherman has not filled his quota, he or she may still fish.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by offshore3144 View Post
I would think with all the bright mind@ in Raliegh(pun intended) someone could create a App for reporting??? I don't know of many people that don't always carry a phone with them. Do a App like fish rules but add reporting to it. Might be to easy.
Lets set the bar a little higher than fish rules. That app is garbage as far as the interface goes. its the app SAFMC created, fyi....
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:19 PM
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I have had some emails with the data analyst that came to the conclusion that over 15000 tilefish were landed.

Couple of points..

1. All landings were based on data from Canaveral area of Florida
2. The number of intercepts their landings data is based upon is a grand total of 4
3. Yes you read #2 correctly

They interviewed 2 recreational and 2 charters in Florida and extrapolated out that recs landed 15000 + fish based on those four interactions
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Squid Row View Post
I have had some emails with the data analyst that came to the conclusion that over 15000 tilefish were landed.

Couple of points..

1. All landings were based on data from Canaveral area of Florida
2. The number of intercepts their landings data is based upon is a grand total of 4
3. Yes you read #2 correctly

They interviewed 2 recreational and 2 charters in Florida and extrapolated out that recs landed 15000 + fish based on those four interactions
That data is only on the Long liners in Cape Canaveral. Golden tile open on Jan 1st. for both Long-line, hook and line or buoy fishing. The 1st one that closes usually within the 1st 2nd or 3rd month from the start is the Long line, filling its quota. But on hook and line and buoy fishing we where fishing until June 17th this year.
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Old 06-24-2019, 06:13 PM
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With all due respect, some would be best served viewing the actual data before attempting to make excuses for it, or make us understand why we don't understand it.

I saw an Excel spreadsheet today with this extrapolated garbage on it and it is ridiculously indefensible.
I don't have it at my disposal currently, but someone will probably come along and post it up.

It reminded me of all these "shore caught" red snapper landings they padded the books with against us to justify closing us out of that fishery.


Last edited by Grunts N Grits; 06-24-2019 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by THE BARRACUDA View Post
That data is only on the Long liners in Cape Canaveral. Golden tile open on Jan 1st. for both Long-line, hook and line or buoy fishing. The 1st one that closes usually within the 1st 2nd or 3rd month from the start is the Long line, filling its quota. But on hook and line and buoy fishing we where fishing until June 17th this year.
The intercepted four vessels in Florida. Two charters and two recreational

The landings per person were 1, 1, 2 and 3

They extrapolated that with some crazy formula on number of available fishing days and determined that recs caught 15000 (+/-) golden tile fish in Jan and Feb
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:36 AM
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From NOAA directly:


Unfortunately, the recreational survey is currently going through changes and is also complicated. I will attempt to explain the situation below. However, feel free to call me to discuss. My number is 727-xxx-xxxx. First off, following a thorough review of the recreational landings survey there have been some big changes to the recreational survey in the past 5 years. However, the Amendments are lagging behind. So we have conversion factors to convert the new landings to the old landings because the ACL was set in the old landings. Here is a link to that allows you to estimate the recreational landings. However, the numbers generated at this site are from the new MRIP FES survey. So these landings will be much higher then what we report. The tilefish ACL has not been set in MRIP FES so we are using a conversion factor to convert the new survey data into the old survey data. Confused yet? Here is the link: https://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/

If you want to dig into the weeds to see the raw data it can be found at: https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/recre...data-downloads I took a look at the raw data for the 2019 wave 1 South Atlantic tilefish landings. Here are my notes: *all of the harvest came from MRIP, so no headboat golden tilefish landings in wave 1 of 2019*4 MRIP intercepts generated these landings: 2 from charter and 2 from private sector.*All 4 MRIP intercepts came from east coast of Florida (Cape Canaveral area)*The two private sector intercepts account for about 95% of the wave 1 landings. These two intercepts blow up the landings. *PSE is 80%
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:28 AM
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They should be (but probably aren't) embarrassed to put out a figure based on 4 boats. What a pathetic joke our fisheries management is. :-(
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chad.sfds View Post
Lets set the bar a little higher than fish rules. That app is garbage as far as the interface goes. its the app SAFMC created, fyi....
Well you get the point. Its not that difficult to do.

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Old 06-25-2019, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by offshore3144 View Post
Well you get the point. Its not that difficult to do.

Yup, it should be super easy to do. Sometimes I wonder if they prefer to not have solid numbers so they can just do what they want.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Fred View Post
Yup, it should be super easy to do. Sometimes I wonder if they prefer to not have solid numbers so they can just do what they want.
Like surveying four boats in florida and concluding that 15000 fish were landed from NC to Key West so they can shut down a fishery very few even participate in?
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Squid Row View Post
Like surveying four boats in florida and concluding that 15000 fish were landed from NC to Key West so they can shut down a fishery very few even participate in?

Exactly.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Fred View Post
Exactly.
Where's the outrage from our CCA members? Thought several were well connected with legislators and could/would draw attention to this obvious travesty. I've written two letters to congressman requesting immediate action and I havent caught a golden tile in my life. This seems like a golden opportunity for the people to fight back. Is it not that important?
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Old 06-26-2019, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
Where's the outrage from our CCA members? Thought several were well connected with legislators and could/would draw attention to this obvious travesty. I've written two letters to congressman requesting immediate action and I havent caught a golden tile in my life. This seems like a golden opportunity for the people to fight back. Is it not that important?

Good question. It seems like this would be a perfect fight for an organization like them.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
Where's the outrage from our CCA members? Thought several were well connected with legislators and could/would draw attention to this obvious travesty. I've written two letters to congressman requesting immediate action and I havent caught a golden tile in my life. This seems like a golden opportunity for the people to fight back. Is it not that important?
Doesn't fit their narrative... And someone has to pay up before they do anything.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:47 AM
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Squid Row and I traded some PMs and we got the same email verbatim. Which makes sense because they are directing questions to the same person. So I took advantage of their "call me if you have any questions" and I spoke in some detail to Michael. Nice guy, for sure a smart guy, but honestly the take away was he was also clueless (for example, he tried to tell me initially that the fish in Grant and Canaveral were caught in state waters). Above is a snippet of the spreadsheet he emailed me that we talked trough so that I could try and fully understand how they arrived at the ~15,000 fish.

First, the "Claim" is what the "intercept" (the person who did the survey) laid their eyes on as far as number of fish. And they normalize it to per person. So right away, the survey is claiming an illegal number of tilefish per person. Next the "wp_int" column is "the number of fishable days per year in "area_x" which is coded by deomgraphic. We didnt get into how big each of the areas are. So for the Canaveral area, they are claiming there were 12,760.1 fishable days in "Wave" 1 which is Jan and Feb. So that's some bullshit formula that takes into account the number of people, weather, who knows what else, but they multiply that times the ILLEGAL number of fish per person from this one intercept and THAT 38,537 becomes your science behind how many fish they are estimating were caught in Area 2 during Wave 1. That's pretty much all you need to know right there to say that this whole organization and operation should be shut the FUCK down until further notice when someone with a lick of sense can step in and put some sensibility and practicality and real science behind this because there is nothing scientific about this.

Now....you might notice the total fish adds up to 49,756 but that isnt the 15k they reported. Well that is because they are "between systems" moving from phone surveys to mail surveys so they run this number through some other concocted equation to get the 15k. I didnt even bother asking about it. So here it is folks. You might not fish for tilefish, but this is how they manage them all. I have no idea how we have the internet that people can jump all over any number of silly or insane things that go viral, yet this goes on under the million$$$ of rec anglers noses and here there's nothing we can do about it........
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:29 AM
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So let's do the math!

4 boats surveyed out of however many millions fish in the South Atlantic from Cape Hatteras to Key West.

3 of the 4 were legal and kept to the 1 fish per person limit (could have been only 1 fish in the boat, could have been 4. NOAA does not know)

1 boat was not legal and had 3 fish per person (don't know the number of fish or people, just the number per person)

So it is safe to say that less than 12 fish were landed...oh let's go crazy and double that.. 24 fish landed!

So 24 fish landed in Florida equates to 38,500+ fish in NOAA MATH!

And people wonder why no one has any confidence whatsoever with our fisheries management people
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