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Recreational Golden Tilefish Closed

Old 06-20-2019, 04:01 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Merry Marlin View Post
Ken, the border of the South Atlantic with the Mid Atlantic is the the Virginia line and closure should only be South... Time to go a little deeper for some broadbills, the boys had 4 yesterday.

Thanks buddy! Yup, I am on the hunt now.
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
And now we reach the stage where both sides should be on somewhat of agreement. Two different species and two different "management" decisions, neither of which is based on science or data but both enrage effected fishery participants for similar reasons.

Can the adults in the room recognize the common denominator and work together to force the issue or will it turn into the usual rec vs. comm pissing match?

Absolutely!

The science always sucks to some extent, but this is so out of whack it is embarrassing. We need better numbers and a more balanced allocation, in my view.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
And now we reach the stage where both sides should be on somewhat of agreement. Two different species and two different "management" decisions, neither of which is based on science or data but both enrage effected fishery participants for similar reasons.

Can the adults in the room recognize the common denominator and work together to force the issue or will it turn into the usual rec vs. comm pissing match?
Originally Posted by Capt. Fred View Post
Absolutely!

The science always sucks to some extent, but this is so out of whack it is embarrassing. We need better numbers and a more balanced allocation, in my view.
They only way your going to have the most consistent numbers possible and I deal with this day in and day out. This what I do for a living, its like the system we have in place for the commercial world. Fish catch for sale has to be reported. Now is the system perfect no, do all catches get reported probably not. But at least more than 90% does, because Commercial needs to show catch or licence is out on hold. Recreational on the other side does not sell fish (Sarcasm Sometimes LOL) but there is no real official way being reported. Its what Noaa has told me many times. Its a projected guess based on on how many times they check some one at the boat ramp or get stopped by LE. Bullshit, its guess like farting in the wind. You cannot have an accurate number that way or even close to one. Again Commercial is not perfect but there is a hell of a lot more red tape and documentation than ever before.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:22 AM
  #24  
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I have been having some very interesting conversations with a fisheries biologist at NOAA. She has offered to set up a call or share whatever information she can gather for me. I am hoping that I will be able to share info next week on how they calculated rec landings.

SAFMC takes whatever data NOAA provides to make the regulations so this might be interesting. Stay tuned..
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by THE BARRACUDA View Post
If you think this makes you insane, consider us the commercial fisherman. South Atlantic from North Carolina to Keywest. Our paper trail can cover over a million roles of Toilet paper. We have to deal on a daily bases a continues surveillance of satellite tracking paper trail and whatever else is imposed. They close our season also, yet with many species the Recreational side is still open BS!! There is no legitimate recording of recreational catches. Let alone what NOAA does except shoot from the hip on a Guess nothing more. Perfect example are Yellowtail Snapper is closed because we met the Quota. Yet Recreational is still open. Go Figure??? How do you know how many Yellowtails Recreational are catching if there is no reporting done??
To bills106 point not to turn this into a rec vs comm debate. But go back in time before there was a commercial fishery. People fished. People caught fish. People strung them up and took pictures. People fed their family and I am sure traded/shared with friends. As much as I hate to quote NOAA, this is recreational fishing and its a "cultural cornerstone" of our country. So the rub for the average angler that likes to fish now and then is when they are told they cant even go out and keep 1 fish because its "closed so as not to overfish", yet there were hundreds of thousands of pounds of allocation commercially and its still open. Red snapper is the poster child example. We're going to go out and get our whopping 5 recreational days this year while commercial gets to hammer them daily for 6 months. I dont care that people fish for a living, good for you. But there should be a fundamental commitment to the citizens of this country, first and foremost, that we can go out and keep A fish if we so choose, for consumption. If things are so bad off for the species that it needs to be closed, then it should be closed to everyone. If its opened back up, the priority should be to the citizens of this country. If there's more that can be harvested beyond that, which surely there is, then let a larger, sustainable and fair portion be allocated.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:58 AM
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Looking a little closer at this document: https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/webdam/download/88278499

Black Grouper, Cobia, Golden Tilefish, Greater Amberjack, King Mackerel, Mutton Snapper, Red Grouper, Red Snapper, and Yellowtail Snapper use MRFSS data instead of MRIP data. I find that very suspicious as these are the species that are causing the most contention as well.

Squid Row, please ask the biologist why in the world are they still using the "fatally flawed" MRFSS algorithm for these species. I thought Congress gave a deadline and they were supposed to be off of that algorithm by now. Looks to me this could be a litigious fisheries management decision, open to class action suits, if indeed they were mandated to use the old MRFSS instead of using the new MRIP data. Very curious.
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Last edited by xfernal; 06-20-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chad.sfds View Post
To bills106 point not to turn this into a rec vs comm debate. But go back in time before there was a commercial fishery. People fished. People caught fish. People strung them up and took pictures. People fed their family and I am sure traded/shared with friends. As much as I hate to quote NOAA, this is recreational fishing and its a "cultural cornerstone" of our country. So the rub for the average angler that likes to fish now and then is when they are told they cant even go out and keep 1 fish because its "closed so as not to overfish", yet there were hundreds of thousands of pounds of allocation commercially and its still open. Red snapper is the poster child example. We're going to go out and get our whopping 5 recreational days this year while commercial gets to hammer them daily for 6 months. I dont care that people fish for a living, good for you. But there should be a fundamental commitment to the citizens of this country, first and foremost, that we can go out and keep A fish if we so choose, for consumption. If things are so bad off for the species that it needs to be closed, then it should be closed to everyone. If its opened back up, the priority should be to the citizens of this country. If there's more that can be harvested beyond that, which surely there is, then let a larger, sustainable and fair portion be allocated.
Chad your 100 % correct. I cannot agree with you more. And the Red snapper Fishery Don't even get me started. That has to be the CLUSTER F$^^&@##K!!!!!!!!!!! of the century. You fave several fat A holes with all the tags or quota fills, don't fish for one GOD D$%^^&&M minute. And sit and charge us for quota to go fill VERY VERY VERY WRONG. If there is a Quota everyone should be allowed to fish and when its filled Close it until next time!!!! Just I like I remember the days when you could sell you catch at the dock for freaking years Charter guys did it, was a huge back bone to help pay cost. OH but now if a recreational/Charter guys sales a fish Federal Crime. And the Irony is the Fish is dead already Who give a flying rats ASS what happen now. If your trying to keep something sustainable, guess what, fish is DEAD, That's out the window................
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:40 PM
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Do you guys worry about the high levels of mercury in the tile fish as related to table fare? Just curious......
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by alligatorgar View Post
Do you guys worry about the high levels of mercury in the tile fish as related to table fare? Just curious......

I don't, since I catch them so infrequently! The stresses of watching the forecast vs. my schedule harms my health more than the mercury ever will. LOL

Regarding recreational reporting requirements: I personally have no problem with that. With today's technology it would be super easy. Set up your account, report your catch before you haul your boat (or remove fish from boat if docked) , get in trouble if you get inspected and haven't reported. No biggie to me and then we could all have some much better data to work with.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Fred View Post
I don't, since I catch them so infrequently! The stresses of watching the forecast vs. my schedule harms my health more than the mercury ever will. LOL

Regarding recreational reporting requirements: I personally have no problem with that. With today's technology it would be super easy. Set up your account, report your catch before you haul your boat (or remove fish from boat if docked) , get in trouble if you get inspected and haven't reported. No biggie to me and then we could all have some much better data to work with.
I would not have an issue with rec digital reporting except for the assumptions the fish counters use.. ones like all red snapper die if reeled up from deeper than 70 feet and released... We can not have real fishery management until the bogus science is discarded
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:09 AM
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The red snapper recreational mortality rate used by NMFS is around 40%, not 100%.

http://sedarweb.org/docs/sar/S41_SA_..._4.24.2017.pdf page 34


http://sedarweb.org/docs/sar/SEDAR%2...Snap_Final.pdf page 11

I'm guessing that with golden tile, a handful of recreational boats caught fish early in the season, and then those numbers got blown up when extrapolated. It typically is a 6 months season regardless. That 16K caught in Jan and Feb is way out of line and should have been tossed.

Those advocating a 50/50 quota split (rec vs comm) on all species, the recreational sector would give up lots of quota on some species. Take Wahoo, which is currently 1.7 million lbs for the rec sector and only 70K lbs for the commercial sector.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by beaufort boy View Post
The red snapper recreational mortality rate used by NMFS is around 40%, not 100%.
That is what they use now.. was not always the case and I was being sarcastic.

The rec landings almost all came from South Florida, I will have confirmation on that next week hopefully.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by chad.sfds View Post
To bills106 point not to turn this into a rec vs comm debate. But go back in time before there was a commercial fishery. People fished. People caught fish. People strung them up and took pictures. People fed their family and I am sure traded/shared with friends. As much as I hate to quote NOAA, this is recreational fishing and its a "cultural cornerstone" of our country. So the rub for the average angler that likes to fish now and then is when they are told they cant even go out and keep 1 fish because its "closed so as not to overfish", yet there were hundreds of thousands of pounds of allocation commercially and its still open. Red snapper is the poster child example. We're going to go out and get our whopping 5 recreational days this year while commercial gets to hammer them daily for 6 months. I dont care that people fish for a living, good for you. But there should be a fundamental commitment to the citizens of this country, first and foremost, that we can go out and keep A fish if we so choose, for consumption. If things are so bad off for the species that it needs to be closed, then it should be closed to everyone. If its opened back up, the priority should be to the citizens of this country. If there's more that can be harvested beyond that, which surely there is, then let a larger, sustainable and fair portion be allocated.
100% agree with you.

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Old 06-21-2019, 09:01 AM
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And I'm not 100% sure, but I'm betting they use all rec landings, even those in state waters to count against our TAC.

Do they apply that equally to commercials as well? Or do those trip tickets wind up in another inbox at the fish house?
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Grunts N Grits View Post
And I'm not 100% sure, but I'm betting they use all rec landings, even those in state waters to count against our TAC.

Do they apply that equally to commercials as well? Or do those trip tickets wind up in another inbox at the fish house?
Pretty sure that there are no state waters where golden tilefish can be caught except off Florida
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Squid Row View Post
Pretty sure that there are no state waters where golden tilefish can be caught except off Florida
Its closed here on all sides.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by alligatorgar View Post
Do you guys worry about the high levels of mercury in the tile fish as related to table fare? Just curious......
The word is they do have a lot but so do so many of the large pelagic.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by THE BARRACUDA View Post
Its closed here on all sides.
By here, you mean FL? Whats closed all sides?
Commercial harvest in state water? Year around or just closed this year already?

East coast federal waters long line closed but hook and line commercial is still open.
And question still stands I will rephrase it.
Do fish recs catch in state water count against the EEZ managed rec TAC?

Last edited by Grunts N Grits; 06-21-2019 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:57 PM
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I would think with all the bright mind@ in Raliegh(pun intended) someone could create a App for reporting??? I don't know of many people that don't always carry a phone with them. Do a App like fish rules but add reporting to it. Might be to easy.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:34 PM
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Do you think

With all the available ways yet they are so resistant to change, it makes one wonder if they like it like it is, so they can guess whatever figure they choose.
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