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New Project Boat! 1967 Bertram 25'

Old 07-16-2016, 02:44 PM
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Default New Project Boat! 1967 Bertram 25'

So, my Father (in law, but father works) and I went to houston Texas Friday at 2am to pick up our new project. The owner was really cool, nice as hell guy. Started some of it a little, and just didn't finish it.

This is the boat I have been looking for, for about 3-4 years now. Exact same one down to the year model. These boats are 25' and have a 10' beam. Yes, 10'. They are pretty much the "biggest" little boat you can find. The one exceptional thing is that the hull of these boats were made 100% of fiberglass, so no need to worry about wood rot. There is some wood in various places around the boat (under the gas tanks, some in motor area), but they aren't the actual hull, they are used for supporting things in the hull.

This is by all means, a helluva project. However, I'm still trying to get a splash time of May 14, 2017 which is my birthday next year! I'm always working on projects, and am very inclined mechanically so I shouldn't have any issues. Biggest issue would be gathering information and more knowledge specifically related to boats and this boat specifically and how quickly I pick up fiberglassing and gelcoating.

The plan!

We plan on eliminating the I/O's and going with a straight OB on a bracket. We will most likely power with a single OB in the 200-300 range, but if we find a sweet deal on twin 115-125's we'd prefer that.

The big motor cover for the old I/O's will be removed and that area in there will be used as a coffin box! I also plan to build a livewell at the center of the transom.

We're still figuring out seating, but I think some foldable bench seats on both sides in the aft of the boat would be nice. Just gotta figure out a way to get them out of the way for fishing though. I'm thinking also possibly a fighting chair right square in the middle.

Also adding 3 captains chairs. 2 for up top on the flybridge, and one for the helm control. There will be some type of seating on the opposite side of the controls in the helm as well.

The flybridge...is probably going to be overhauled. As it is now, when you stand up there, the console hits right at the knees. So even if you're sitting, you can't even put your legs underneath. We are thinking about raising the height of it to a more comfortable level...and possibly moving it forward about 4-6 inches to allow more room. Moving it forward may be a concern for structural integrity though, but I think it will be fine.

Also, we are really open to suggestions on what to install. This is obviously a blank canvas, and we can do literally whatever we want to it. It would be such a shame to build this boat all the way to finish, then regret not putting something in while we were doing this. So, like I said, I'm open to suggestions, anything from cup holders to a stripper pole!
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:44 PM
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:46 PM
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:46 PM
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Old 07-16-2016, 03:20 PM
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Sweet!... And yes, I'm on the other site too...
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Old 07-16-2016, 06:35 PM
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very nice boat , great start are you going to stick with twins or convert to single for economy? personally I despise outboards but again that's just because of rotten luck I always had with them compared to inboards or io but the new 4 strokes I bet would be a blast
!
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Old 07-16-2016, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Micky Ryan View Post
very nice boat , great start are you going to stick with twins or convert to single for economy? personally I despise outboards but again that's just because of rotten luck I always had with them compared to inboards or io but the new 4 strokes I bet would be a blast
!
Well, its definitely going to outboards. It most likely will be a single outboard. The twin would just be nice for the safety factor. I would much rather prefer economy, so that plays heavily. The boat will be a fishing boat, but I want to enjoy the cruise out to the fishing spot and slow trolling...not a hurry up, throw fish in the the cooler, and hurry home. So, considering the boat will be mostly at lower speeds, I think a single would favor more economically. I think I'll just combat the the single motor issue by just putting a little kicker on there.

The outboard will definitely be a newer 4stroke. Once again, for durability and fuel economy. I really don't have a preference of I/O or OB. I'm a garage mechanic on the side, and sort of specialize in rebuilding (car) engines all the time. I currently have 2 engines being built right now in my garage. So, I'm sure I can handle any mechanical issues I have. Hell, the OB's are super easy to work on.
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Holicori View Post
Well, its definitely going to outboards. It most likely will be a single outboard. The twin would just be nice for the safety factor. I would much rather prefer economy, so that plays heavily. The boat will be a fishing boat, but I want to enjoy the cruise out to the fishing spot and slow trolling...not a hurry up, throw fish in the the cooler, and hurry home. So, considering the boat will be mostly at lower speeds, I think a single would favor more economically. I think I'll just combat the the single motor issue by just putting a little kicker on there.

The outboard will definitely be a newer 4stroke. Once again, for durability and fuel economy. I really don't have a preference of I/O or OB. I'm a garage mechanic on the side, and sort of specialize in rebuilding (car) engines all the time. I currently have 2 engines being built right now in my garage. So, I'm sure I can handle any mechanical issues I have. Hell, the OB's are super easy to work on.

From what I've seen, twins benefit as far as economy goes. For example, I think a single 300 would burn more than twin 150s. But I could be wrong as it is based on hearsay and claims of friends. However, you should build it with a bracket designed for twin engines, so even if you run a single at first you have the option to add an additional engine without having to remove the bracket.

Subscribed. Excited to watch this one.
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Old 07-17-2016, 12:27 AM
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Thanks bud. I do plan on getting a twin bracket and just strapping one in the center of it if I have to, until or if I get twins.

With the twin bracket I have some room to work with too. The single outboard brackets are extremely small, and would look very stupid on this boat. The twin bracket will look much better, and hell, let me pull some bigger fish on it, or just give more room to stand on closer to the water if whatever need be, aroses.

*spoiler alert* I will be putting a tuna door in!


I've heard it so many different ways that twins are more economical, or just a single 4 stroke, etc etc. This is actually a topic I really need to research and Im very well open, and hoping, for input from others. I would love to see some proof, specifically, some proof that shows what rpm's/speed they were at.

Just from thinking about it, I would guess that a single outboard would be more fuel efficient at an idle/troll speed...than 2 twins at an idle/troll speed. But, I would really think that twins would be much more fuel efficient than an OB at a higher rpm/cruising speed.
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Old 07-17-2016, 04:03 AM
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Great boat and project! Best of luck.
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Old 07-17-2016, 07:06 AM
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Do a search for captain bone and his Bertram 25 powered by a single 225. He had decent performance with this setup.
I think you are cn the right track to enlarge the flybridge as it looks very small when you see a picture with someone on it.
Bone used a transom cutout which makes sense for a budget build compared to the expense of a bracket. Todd
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Old 07-17-2016, 08:21 AM
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Another flybridge option would be to ditch the flybridge and use a simple pipe tower flybridge. I have a picture of one I can dig out if of any interest? My reasons for considering the pipe tower approach would be to keep the weight down to prevent the boat from being "tender". Also could fold for towing and it's also one way to work around a non-flybridge model. Todd
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Old 07-17-2016, 09:04 AM
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What an awesome project, I'd never realized the beam on them was 10', thats a lot of boat to be sitting at 25'. I hope you find a set of twins, going to OBs will open it up for sure and add lots of usable fishing space especially if you're adding in a coffin box and a livewell. It'll be one hell of a machine.
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Old 07-17-2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by waytooslow View Post
Do a search for captain bone and his Bertram 25 powered by a single 225. He had decent performance with this setup.
I think you are cn the right track to enlarge the flybridge as it looks very small when you see a picture with someone on it.
Bone used a transom cutout which makes sense for a budget build compared to the expense of a bracket. Todd
Its funny you mention him. I actually tried to buy it boat about 3 or 4 years ago. I was only about 22 years old at the time, so just wasn't ready to buy. But I took one look at his boat and knew that this was the exact boat I wanted. I've actually already been conversing with him a little bit...I'm sure I'll have his phone number on speed dial for the next year ha.
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:43 AM
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I am just finishing up a Sportcraft 25 rebuild complete gut job with transom stringers and deck coaming, regelling the bottom. I needed something legally trailerable with twins and an 8' 6" beam for this use. But, I have a summer home where a 25 bertram would work. I also have a doner boat with a 250 hp with a jack plate, controls, steering so I am just beginning to think about/ look for a 25 bertram hull.

One thing to caution you about which really surprised me on my Sportcraft build is the never ending cost of the rigging. Everything on the project boat was old or garbage so it got thrown out in the process. I have scrounged as much as I could used etc but fuel tanks, fittings hoses, steering, lights, rub rail, doors, rod racks, outriggers, cleats, controls, wiring, switches, electrical panels, tabs, seats, windsheild and on and on it really adds up. I haven't totaled it up yet but probably 8 to 10K. This is more acute the quicker your build goes if you are trying to build out of pocket.

Todd

Last edited by waytooslow; 07-17-2016 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:46 AM
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For your use I think your are correct to go with a single. Here is (link below) fairly recent article comparing identical whaler hulls with twins vs single screw. I am guessing that with that beam and a lot of fiberglass and tower Hole shot may be your problem with a single, perhaps a 4 blade prop would be needed. or full trim tabs.

Fuel Economy
For the best analysis, compare similar boat speeds (mph), not engine speeds (rpm). Yes, at cruising speeds, the numbers are close, but the single wins, even though it’s working harder than the twins. (Remember that two lower units create more drag in the water than one.) Then look at low speeds. There’s a big difference. How much of your running time will be slow, either by choice or by regulation or because you’ll be trolling a lot?


http://www.boatingmag.com/single-vs-twin-outboards
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Old 07-25-2016, 12:00 PM
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If the fuel tanks are F/G, you should factor new ones into your budget. Old F/G tanks did not do well w/E-10 gas. Lots of articles on older gas-powered Berts that had a ton of fuel-related issues when the fuel started to break down the resins used in the tanks. You've got an awesome hull there and what sounds like a good game plan. Keep the pics coming as she progresses.
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Old 07-25-2016, 12:09 PM
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I'd hate to put less than 300 hp on the back of that boat. I guess if you decided to go with an single and got a deal on a nice 250. I think twin 115s would be a little underpowered. twin 140 Suzuki's may be a good compromise on weight and cost if you decide on twins. Personally, I'd do a single 300 suzuki.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:46 PM
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The fiberglass tanks are already removed and we have aluminium tanks that came from the previous owner. That was one of my plans to do, but we're a step ahead. I may however, end up extending and maximizing the tanks size. As it is now, its a 75 gal tank. Which, for a normal day trip is just fine. However, theres plenty of tuna not too far from here (about 60 miles from us) that I'd like to grab too. For this, I am thinking about getting one of those marine fuel bladders to just throw on board whenever we make large runs like that.

UltraHawk, I will be mostly at slower trolling speeds most of the time. I am assuming that at slower trolling speeds the single will be more efficient. It's also just generally less of a headache in regards to maintenance.

Stevesmarsh, there is actually a guy (captbone) that's on this site. He slapped a 225 optimax on the back of his boat (exact year/make/model) and it did pretty well (it was even a very tired engine). I think he said he topped out at a little over 40mph, and cruised somewhere around 22 I think. I still honestly have to think about the engine in regards to which HP and setup. I'd like to find the most fuel efficient engine as possible since speed is not an issue to me (as long as it runs over 30; which is easy).
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:48 PM
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A few boats you may want to google for ideas to get the gears turning are the Widgeon, and the Blue Grass, plus Scot Sims project page. They are all inboards, but still worth looking at...

I am in the middle of a similar project, but a '64 convertible. I am also taking a similar route with the outboards, but went with an integral bracket. I have done quite a bit of reading up on these (there was once a dedicated site that no longer exists), and from most first hand accounts, and I'm sure Capt Bone has already said this to you, you may be surprised how little horsepower she needs. These hulls have a reputation for being bombproof and super rigid, and the assumption is often made that that means they are heavy. This is not the case. Ray Hunt and his team were very clever in their construction methods, and these hulls, while very strong and stiff, are still surprisingly light. People have thrown twin 200's and more on these hulls, but a lot of the guys from that old group ran much less than that with great results. IIRC, the generally accepted standard over there was that anything over 250 was a bit over the top.

One thing I would recommend is to get a flashlight and get a good look below the deck at those stringers. You want to check for any delamination of the stringers from the hull. Check right up into the bow. It is the "box" construction that makes these hulls tick, and if that is compromised you want to catch it and correct it now.
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