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Why does marine service suck so bad?

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Why does marine service suck so bad?

Old 03-22-2019, 06:40 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
Cost on outboard parts run high across the board for every manufacturer.
For Yamaha, depending on how you place the order, and amount, there is no shipping cost.
Moving along proprietary computer software lines. All manufacturers are going this way, bad for the independent, good for the authorized dealer, as are the engines, they are getting more complicated. Once again, bad for the DIY or independent, good for the dealer who has invested the money.
Honestly right now, outboard repair is at a crossroads. Right in the middle of where someone says, "yep, me and UTUbe can fix this" and where it should be taken to a dealer.
Very hard to troubleshoot today's engines without software, but, you can Utube it and replace parts all day long from the internet.

Agreed with most of this and understand the rest. That being said with diagnostic software youtube becomes that much better. It's not for everyone to take it on as a DIYer. However if someone tells me "you wouldn't" be able to do it I would say they are more than likely right IF I do not have ALL the tools I need hence Diagnostic software. Gimmie that and I will figure it out.

More likely than not this is benefits the OEM and official dealer more than someone stopping the sun from coming up because they keyed in the wrong input.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht;12359456
Honestly right now, outboard repair is at a crossroads. Right in the middle of where someone says, "yep, me and UTUbe can fix this" and where it should be taken to a dealer.
[b
Very hard to troubleshoot today's engines[/b] without software, but, you can Utube it and replace parts all day long from the internet.
Not hard at all IMO.

Just give the THT community a two word explanation of the problem (no need to mention the brand or model) and one can get tens if not hundreds of solutions to said problem. Then pick the problem that one wanted to received in the first place. Problem solved.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by magua View Post
Agreed with most of this and understand the rest. That being said with diagnostic software youtube becomes that much better. It's not for everyone to take it on as a DIYer. However if someone tells me "you wouldn't" be able to do it I would say they are more than likely right IF I do not have ALL the tools I need hence Diagnostic software. Gimmie that and I will figure it out.

More likely than not this is benefits the OEM and official dealer more than someone stopping the sun from coming up because they keyed in the wrong input.
Given the software, how many people actually know what they are looking at? And, I'm talking techs here also. Just because I am a "Certified Yamaha Technician" doesn't mean I know shit about what the software is telling me.
In most cases, the "computer" is not telling you, "Replace this part".
Code 13 pulsar coil might actually mean something else.
For the general layman and most techs, the software tells you how many hours at a given rpm, how many overheat/overrev/low O/P codes.
It takes 40K and a year in MMI school or one trip to Yamaha as a dealer tech to become "Yamaha Certified", it takes many, many years to actually know what you are doing.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
Given the software, how many people actually know what they are looking at? And, I'm talking techs here also. Just because I am a "Certified Yamaha Technician" doesn't mean I know shit about what the software is telling me.
In most cases, the "computer" is not telling you, "Replace this part".
Code 13 pulsar coil might actually mean something else.
For the general layman and most techs, the software tells you how many hours at a given rpm, how many overheat/overrev/low O/P codes.
It takes 40K and a year in MMI school or one trip to Yamaha as a dealer tech to become "Yamaha Certified", it takes many, many years to actually know what you are doing.
"Code 13 pulsar coil might actually mean something else.' OEMs make manuals and provide flow charts.

$300 for a knockoff TechII Tool for GM products and a manual with flow charts for diagnosing from them will allow most determined/patient DIYers to get the results there looking for.

I know I do it alot.

Not saying I can fix things that came from another galaxy - but let's get real aliens didn't build this stuff.

Given patience and determination those who really want to can do it - if they have all those necessary "toys" the oems are holding hostage.

Not to worry not everyone wants to do this kinda stuff. Plenty of clients willing to drop it off and pick it up after paying.

Cannot tell you how many times the - one of very few dealers that has Yamaha rights for the area I am in has asked what are you going to with those parts and look at me like a have 3 heads on my shoulder.

Again not saying I can fix it all or have time to do it and choose to enter the wheel of "hoping it gets done right' before I drop me hard earned coin. That said if I do need to drop it off regardless of the reason at least I am not walking in like a hair dresser.

Always appreciated your help and input on this forum.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by magua View Post
"Code 13 pulsar coil might actually mean something else.' OEMs make manuals and provide flow charts.

$300 for a knockoff TechII Tool for GM products and a manual with flow charts for diagnosing from them will allow most determined/patient DIYers to get the results there looking for.

I know I do it alot.

Not saying I can fix things that came from another galaxy - but let's get real aliens didn't build this stuff.

Given patience and determination those who really want to can do it - if they have all those necessary "toys" the oems are holding hostage.

Not to worry not everyone wants to do this kinda stuff. Plenty of clients willing to drop it off and pick it up after paying.

Cannot tell you how many times the - one of very few dealers that has Yamaha rights for the area I am in has asked what are you going to with those parts and look at me like a have 3 heads on my shoulder.

Again not saying I can fix it all or have time to do it and choose to enter the wheel of "hoping it gets done right' before I drop me hard earned coin. That said if I do need to drop it off regardless of the reason at least I am not walking in like a hair dresser.

Always appreciated your help and input on this forum.
What Canadian city is South of Detroit?
Spent me many a night at DYC.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:39 AM
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Here is one, right up your alley.
F115 TLRA will not idle
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
Given the software, how many people actually know what they are looking at? And, I'm talking techs here also. Just because I am a "Certified Yamaha Technician" doesn't mean I know shit about what the software is telling me.
In most cases, the "computer" is not telling you, "Replace this part".
Code 13 pulsar coil might actually mean something else.
For the general layman and most techs, the software tells you how many hours at a given rpm, how many overheat/overrev/low O/P codes.
It takes 40K and a year in MMI school or one trip to Yamaha as a dealer tech to become "Yamaha Certified", it takes many, many years to actually know what you are doing.
I do. I had an employee that went to MMI , certified this and that and had no idea of how an engine actually worked. If you don't understand the mechanics of an engine you will never understand the rest.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
What Canadian city is South of Detroit?
Spent me many a night at DYC.

Windsor
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
What Canadian city is South of Detroit?
Spent me many a night at DYC.
Originally Posted by magua View Post
Windsor

Dry stacked my whaler xross the river from DYC at Keans.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by magua View Post
Dry stacked my whaler xross the river from DYC at Keans.
Miss me some perch from Sinbads.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
Miss me some perch from Sinbads.

Oh yeah
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:08 AM
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I'm not sure about the marine repair industry, but for us auto mechanics, there's just no money in it, so the good ones quit doing it. Back in the day, a top auto tech made 30-40% of the shops labor rate an hour. Nowadays, a top tech is lucky to make 20% of the shops labor rate. We charge a paltry $80 an hour at our little 3 bay shop and people still bitch that it costs too much.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:40 PM
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I think "marine service" industry might be getting a hard shake on this thread. I don't consider boat dealers, for the most part, to be a legitimate marine services provider. But many do and haul the boat back to the dealer for service. They want to sell boats. Service? Not so much.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:56 PM
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I'm a yamaha tech. I've helped out a ton of people on here , very nice people. The reality is, at least in Florida you can be a terrible mechanic, charge top dollar and still have a new customer every day. I see it everyday.

THE REAL BIG PROBLEM that no one wants to really talk about is the ABSOLUTE LACK of technicians that will be around in 10-15 years when all of the older guys cant work anymore. I look around in yamaha school every year and I am the youngest (been going for 9 years now). There might be one other 26-31. The rest are 50+.
Unfortunate, but the way I see it in 10 years i will have the marine industry cornered lol
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HarvestTime View Post
I'm a yamaha tech. I've helped out a ton of people on here , very nice people. The reality is, at least in Florida you can be a terrible mechanic, charge top dollar and still have a new customer every day. I see it everyday.

THE REAL BIG PROBLEM that no one wants to really talk about is the ABSOLUTE LACK of technicians that will be around in 10-15 years when all of the older guys cant work anymore. I look around in yamaha school every year and I am the youngest (been going for 9 years now). There might be one other 26-31. The rest are 50+.
Unfortunate, but the way I see it in 10 years i will have the marine industry cornered lol
I don't see it quite like that.
I'm usually the oldest guy in my Yamaha classes. The class has a fair amount of younger people. Issue is, getting the dealerships to send people, it cost money and a dealer doesn't want to do that on unproven work ethic or talent.
My shop I'm the oldest, all my techs are young pups. All of my techs have been to skool, multiple times, one I took from no certs to a Yamaha Master Tech. That takes time and money.
Problem is teaching the young-uns what is in my old head, in quick real time. They can't know or learn everything that I know in a year or two.
Oh, and they have to learn the hard way.
And, as far as reputations and charging people an arm and a leg, it doesn't work that way with large shops and brick and mortar shops.
As this site knows, you mess up and it's all over the web.
Yes, they may have a reputation of being expensive (we do), but, you can't be expensive and bad at the same time.
When your big, your reputation is only as good as your last job.
Now, smaller guys working out of a truck with no website or store? Yep, new blood everyday.
Instagram.

Last edited by Parker Yacht; 03-22-2019 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:50 PM
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Do Yamaha classes teach how to spell "school"?
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by philgorp View Post
Do Yamaha classes teach how to spell "school"?
I never said I gradiated.
Never went to college either.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:38 PM
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a couple of things to consider;
not all techs attended factory classes on the equipment they are working on
some that attended did not pay attention
some lack the academic skills to glean info in a class setting if they were paying attention

boats have complicated systems. a good tech has a rather large knowledge base. some who have the capacity to learn all of this well, move on to better jobs. this is why if I find a good tech I tip generously and often

Last edited by krisinak; 03-22-2019 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:54 PM
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Parker, I agree with you mostly. But just ask yourself this, when your up there and you walk by a motorcycle class and peek in, 90 percent of the class is low 30s or younger. My point is the marine industry just doesnt get the influx of young talent like cars, motorcycles etc.
yamaha even sees this, that's why they started that 1 week long engine service class
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Elgreco809 View Post
I'm not sure about the marine repair industry, but for us auto mechanics, there's just no money in it, so the good ones quit doing it. Back in the day, a top auto tech made 30-40% of the shops labor rate an hour. Nowadays, a top tech is lucky to make 20% of the shops labor rate. We charge a paltry $80 an hour at our little 3 bay shop and people still bitch that it costs too much.
when I started in cars, in the olden days, a mechanic got 45% of the labor and 5% of parts in a private shop. Labor rate was 45 to 55 hr. A good mechanic could turn 65 - 80 hrs a week with a good writer. In later years at a dealer on a team, top guy at 28 hr could get Honda dealers 5 years in getting 110k a year on maintenance. Anyone asks me about working on boats, I say you want to make money go work on cars. No money in boats

Originally Posted by philgorp View Post
Do Yamaha classes teach how to spell "school"?
Originally Posted by Parker Yacht View Post
I never said I gradiated.
Never went to college either.
kinda like shoppe and mudd
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