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Why do we accept poor quality?

Old 03-17-2019, 04:17 AM
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Default Why do we accept poor quality?

just received a new boat and the sales guy tells me, look it over for a few days and then call us with whatever you need fixed. This is my second new boat in the last year and a half and the same thing with the last. I have to be their quality control why as boaters do we accept this? When I buy anything else much less the most expensive thing next to my house I don't have to go through it and determine all the faults.

My prior two boats before these these two were used and I will not buy another new boat because going used was much better because the other owner (QC) already fixed everything.

i purposely didn't mention the manufacturer because I don't think it matters, they're all the same in my book.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:23 AM
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What do you mean "We", Kemo sabe?

I bought a new boat in November of 2017 and except for a small bolt being in the opening of a cup holder drain, it's been fine.
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Last edited by raybark; 03-18-2019 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by raybark View Post
What do you mean "We", Kemo sabe?

I bought a new boat in November of 2017 and except for a small bolt being in the opening of a cop holder drain, it's been fine.
Just goes to show you what happens when you deal with first class manufacturers and dealers.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by raybark View Post
What do you mean "We", Kemo sabe?

I bought a new boat in November of 2017 and except for a small bolt being in the opening of a cop holder drain, it's been fine.
Same here, mine has only been back for service. I found no defects on my boat and I still haven't after 4 years.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Saltydawg15 View Post
just received a new boat and the sales guy tells me, look it over for a few days and then call us with whatever you need fixed. This is my second new boat in the last year and a half and the same thing with the last. I have to be their quality control why as boaters do we accept this? When I buy anything else much less the most expensive thing next to my house I don't have to go through it and determine all the faults.

My prior two boats before these these two were used and I will not buy another new boat because going used was much better because the other owner (QC) already fixed everything.

i purposely didn't mention the manufacturer because I don't think it matters, they're all the same in my book.
When you have a new house built, the builder tells you to run through the house and make a punch list. Building a boat is much more akin to building a house than to building a car. A house, like a boat, is a low volume project that is built from the outside in (build the shell first, then fill it, plumb it, wire it, finish it), largely with manual labor. Cars are high volume assembly-line items that are built from the inside out (shell goes on last) with pre-assembled and pre-finished sub assemblies, with a lot of automation.

There is usually not enough volume, and too much customization in boats to allow for such automation and pretested subassemblies (I am aware that some manufacturers might do some of the above to some extent, but it is the exception not the rule, and they still have to deal with much more manual labor than cars).

Do we "accept" poor quality? I am not sure what that means. Should new boat buyers go on strike and stop buying boats until all builders automate and improve? Kinda tough to go boating that way. Do we go to the Supreme Court with a lawsuit every time there is a warranty item? Run to social media and start a bash thread? None of the above really works for most people...

YMMV.

Last edited by 6104696; 03-17-2019 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:46 AM
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I would say it absolutely 110% depends on the mfg, but, I agree that ALL new boats today are too expensive for them to expect you to be the QC guy.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:25 AM
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What did you find that needed attention?
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Saltydawg15 View Post
look it over for a few days and then call us with whatever you need fixed.
Maybe the guy was just being a responsible a reputable business person? I've never heard those words after leaving with a new car (and paying 5 grand for warranty insurance). I would left with the sense and appreciated he acknowledged there may be a few items that need attention and he is willing to address them. I think I would have thanked that guy for his excellent customer service.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:47 AM
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“We”? You have a mouse in your pocket? I do not accept poor quality in purchases or in business.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:49 AM
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I can't think of a single thing that has been wrong with my Cape Horn after 5 months and 90 hours of use, except I feel that it would benefit from 4 blade props. When I mentioned that to them, they ordered me a set and are shipping them to me without charge.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:02 AM
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I will agree it is frustrating, but it has been hit or miss in my experience. My first new boat was a Tidewater, a company has been torn apart on this site, and my punchlist was 1 item, which was a little smudge of marine caulk on the console. My Robalo punch list was 2 pages long. My Edgewater punchlist is 3 items, and they are very minor. In each case, though, the dealer has taken care of them without hesitation.

That said, I have had two of my new cars back at the dealer within weeks of buying for what I would consider punch list items too. It seems to be the world we live in these days.
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Last edited by zig10; 03-17-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:07 AM
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Purchase a new RV, and I'll show you a punch list as long as the RV itself.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:09 AM
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6104696 writes: "Do we 'accept' poor quality? I am not sure what that means. Should new boat buyers go on strike and stop buying boats until all builders automate and improve? Kinda tough to go boating that way. Do we go to the Supreme Court with a lawsuit every time there is a warranty item?"

The answers are that customers are accepting of poor quality and that, by and large, marine manufacturers have not embraced the design, engineering, design, manufacturing, and quality methodologies available to them. To some extent, the boat manufacturers are like the Big Three US automakers before the entry of Toyota and other foreign manufacturers around the time that gasoline prices starting to skyrocket. When consumers saw that they had choices beyond Detroit's offerings, things changed.

Volume and the nature of the product are manageable metrics. The division for which I am responsible designs, builds, and supports a wide range of aerospace systems, devices, and platforms, ranging in size from wearable devices to manned/unmanned craft ranging in size from several ounces to many tons and in annual unit volumes from 1 to 100,000. Product and process quality exceed 99.999%. Our composite manufacturing activities are orders of magnitude better than typical marine industry work, and our total costs for that work (from material selection to customer delivery) on a weight, surface area, or volume basis are substantially lower than those of most production boat builders.

Like the OP, I'm mad as hell about poor marine boat/system/repair quality, and I don't want to take it anymore. Even, so-called quality builders like Viking (and I have one of their products) failed to perform basic material qualification on CCP gelcoat and built bad boats for five years, including two years after the gelcoat failure mechanism was known to them!

It appears that none of us, either as members of groups, have the horsepower to drive change as we cling to our boating addictions.
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Last edited by LKD; 03-17-2019 at 06:17 AM. Reason: Insert quote marks; fix typo
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:17 AM
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it depends...
buy a boat built by tunnles and you will have ZERO quality problems... the QC department, where he was the teacher, is impecable...
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:41 AM
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a newly built boat is kinda like a project with the exception that it is built by professionals.
the options you are offered are generally done with templates for a model , a good boat manufacture will over time perfect these templates, you as a customer by doing a list assists the manufacture to build boats to a higher standard.

do the list ,, be as picky as you please , no doubt the manufacture will thank you , as all the information will in the long run help their QC person to be more vigilant on the next build., also they will see that you expect a high quality product .

price also reflects quality , since you have not mentioned the manufacture , i will add that if your boat is a mid to lower tere boat then you need to accept some quality flaws.

enjoy your new boat and stop being so darn negative ...........
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:41 AM
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I’ve seen guys with brand new 300k + boats with issues throughout the first year. I think it has to do with how custom boats are, the building process (inside out) and how hard boats are used. Even if you don’t run your boat hard it gets beat up just running around and hitting wakes.

For me its not if issues arise its how the manufacturer or dealer handles said issues.

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Old 03-17-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by combi_40 View Post
it depends...
buy a boat built by tunnles and you will have ZERO quality problems... the QC department, where he was the teacher, is impecable...
Maybe even top five.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:55 AM
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We accept boats assuming they will have certain number of deficiencies because we as a boating group are not willing to pay the price required for boats with zero deficiencies. Assuming that obtaining zero is even possible.
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:38 AM
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In my company we are ISO 9001 certified. That basically means we have a defined and documented process for almost everything we do. I have personally been responsible for CMMI Process Change in our engineering department and the role requires an abundance of documentation.
It takes time to reach these goals, as a company, but the end result is worth the effort. We turn out a far superior product in both material and services than our competitors. The ROI is, we can charge a premium for that product or service and our customers know, we not only produce a superior product, we also stand behind it. Our warranty department has less work to do now because the process is managed from cradle to grave. If there is a problem with either a product or service, we know exactly where to go back and institute a change in order to alleviate any future issues.
Perhaps the boating manufacturing industry should look into this type of quality control as opposed to having someone look your boat over and check a box.
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerhead 6 View Post
In my company we are ISO 9001 certified. That basically means we have a defined and documented process for almost everything we do. I have personally been responsible for CMMI Process Change in our engineering department and the role requires an abundance of documentation.
It takes time to reach these goals, as a company, but the end result is worth the effort. We turn out a far superior product in both material and services than our competitors. The ROI is, we can charge a premium for that product or service and our customers know, we not only produce a superior product, we also stand behind it. Our warranty department has less work to do now because the process is managed from cradle to grave. If there is a problem with either a product or service, we know exactly where to go back and institute a change in order to alleviate any future issues.
Perhaps the boating manufacturing industry should look into this type of quality control as opposed to having someone look your boat over and check a box.
Your customers apparently are willing to pay a premium for your product. Many will and do. It is worth it to them.

The typical boat buyer won't. He votes mostly with his wallet. Complains about high boat prices. Wants them to be cheaper. But also expects perfection. Contradictory objectives.

You indicate your company has a warranty department. Despite all of your best efforts in the world the company apparently have not achieved perfection. It is an elusive goal. The closer one tries to get to perfection the steeper the rate at which costs (and prices) escalate.
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