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Eastward Boats Hull #4 "Salty Sway"

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Eastward Boats Hull #4 "Salty Sway"

Old 06-26-2019, 01:33 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
What they need is a tag permit for Jewfish in your area.
LOL - Yep...Somewhere in my pile of s_it I've got a pic of a 250-300 pounder taken in 12' of water off south Vero. That was a long long time ago in a far away place...

Crackerass show your buddy the pics and tell him they were catchin hell on the other side (of the boat) !!! I bet those kids would love to S C U B A
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:49 PM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by MarkV View Post
LOL - Yep...Somewhere in my pile of s_it I've got a pic of a 250-300 pounder taken in 12' of water off south Vero. That was a long long time ago in a far away place...

Crackerass show your buddy the pics and tell him they were catchin hell on the other side (of the boat) !!! I bet those kids would love to S C U B A
He caught 3 over 20 that day including one that went 28. Plus a Gag, Cobia, and mangroves. Not all on that spot. He was first certified as advanced open water in the 80s and has killed many, many fish underwater in the Gulf before most of this new generation of chucklehead divers learned to swim.He knows the drill. In any case, one of y’all should send the blue boat a dive flag.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:49 PM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by BassnBays View Post
When we ran the numbers on #4 Salty Sway, I too thought we should have gotten better MPG and speed. I contacted PowerTech and gave them the numbers so they could suggest a different prop. I was guessing an OFX 4-blade 20 pitch? PowerTech told me that we were presently at 92% efficiency which is only a 8% slip - don't touch it.

I then called a local Suzuki dealer that has been around a long time and asked his opinion. He too said we were there. He directed me to the Suzuki website performance reports, 31' TV powered with the same 300s and the same 3-blade 20" props. All of the low end, mid-range and cruise numbers are basically the same as what we got with our setup. They did have a higher top end speed, but had to run a higher trim to get more rpm to get it.

When I ran Salty Sway, I stopped trimming before the needle went into the redline. I know Suzuki says you can go past 6K but I also have fought with Suzuki many times in the past over warranty issues and wasn't about to run a customers engines past the gauges redline.



This is an actual picture of the Simrad MFD on Salty Sway while we were running the numbers.

With all this talk about the numbers, don't lose sight of how Salty Sway performed otherwise. She ran great. No cavitation. Incredibly smooth. We ran out the inlet and on the way back in (average 5' inlet slop) you can let go of the wheel in a 3/4 following sea and she tracked like it was on a set or rails. That to me is a better bench mark to gauge the boats overall performance.

Have you played with the mounting height of the motor? A lot of props will work great when buried in the water, try raising the motor a hole or two and see how they perform.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:51 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by BassnBays View Post

Although the Horizon would run fine with a pair of 200's (she runs a single 250) having to have 30" motors sets the minimum power at 250's. No one I'm aware of makes a 30" 200.
According to this link, you can get 200 HO's with 30" shafts if you scroll down to see the spec sheet for the 200 HO
ENGINE TYPEV6 74° E-TEC D.I.
WEIGHT - LBS (KG)537 (244)
SHAFT LENGTH - IN (MM)20” (508), 25” (635), 30” (762)
https://www.evinrude.com/en-US/e-tec-g2.html

Last edited by Bullshipper; 06-26-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 06-27-2019, 02:49 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by Bullshipper View Post
According to this link, you can get 200 HO's with 30" shafts if you scroll down to see the spec sheet for the 200 HO
ENGINE TYPEV6 74° E-TEC D.I.
WEIGHT - LBS (KG)537 (244)
SHAFT LENGTH - IN (MM)20” (508), 25” (635), 30” (762)
https://www.evinrude.com/en-US/e-tec-g2.html
You're correct, the 200 H.O. is available in 30". It's basically a de-tuned 250 and the cost savings, IMO, doesn't justify not going with the 250. I think the 200 H.O. is more suited for a boat that has a maximum hp rating of 200 or 400 and you want a little more power.
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:50 AM
  #226  
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Originally Posted by Diverboy View Post
Have you played with the mounting height of the motor? A lot of props will work great when buried in the water, try raising the motor a hole or two and see how they perform.
The motors are being raised One more hole sometime next week. I will update the findings after running her.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:37 AM
  #227  
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I compiled the info out there for similar running surfaces. MPGs are a little spastic due to the one decimal round off error.

My boat is a AC 31 with G2 300s, full tower, WOT ~52mph. I only have performance data greater than 5000rpms.

Wonder what the DF300 boat would do at WOT, probably good for and extra couple MPH? That would align all the boats nicely.

Those DF300 #s actually seem quite good, especially in the cruise range, especially since the physical characteristics of the DF300 boat arn't doing it any performance favors.

FWIW, I settled on 18 pitch RX4s (4 blade), Rebel 19s (3 blade) just wouldn't hook up for me. Unfortunately I never tried the power techs. Also, the boat performed negatively when I tried to raise it on the jack plates to squeak out more performance. It wanted more trim to get the bow up, but couldn't without ventilating the props. Watch out for that when you raise the motors. Keep in mind this might not show itself until you get into some rougher water.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:13 AM
  #228  
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Jesus, third time typing this on dang phone.

so, to your point, you want to increase trim and not airate props.

would a Permatrim hydrofoil help both? Increase bow trim with less engine trim AND protect prop from aeration?

Permatrim thought my cat was too big or too heavy, but I did not get a good explanation of why. Maybe too much stress on connection to OB?

If so, maybe a more flexible hydrofoilwould work. Stingrays are more flexible but less hydrodynamic. Met a guy with a 29 twin vee who had them and said they made a dramatic difference for him.




ok Brain trust... what do you think?
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:45 AM
  #229  
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I've used Dolphins(sp?) on a previous boat with huge success so I know they do work well. Added mph and made that Mercruiser so easy to trim out. Loved them.

My only question is why have not any manufacturers embraced any them? A factory approved design would have testing behind it as well as no questions on warranty. I think sometimes they do break and nobody wants to warranty that.

The Permatrims are literally just a flat cutout plate bolted to the cavitation plate. No shape at all but some swear by them. Wish I could try them without drilling or voiding warranty.

The Stingray has a clamp on no drill version. Tried one of them myself on the Pro Line. It's somewhere Southeast of Islamorada. $100? On sale. Waste of money but seemed to help plane faster until it removed itself.
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:08 AM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
I've used Dolphins(sp?) on a previous boat with huge success so I know they do work well. Added mph and made that Mercruiser so easy to trim out. Loved them.

My only question is why have not any manufacturers embraced any them? A factory approved design would have testing behind it as well as no questions on warranty. I think sometimes they do break and nobody wants to warranty that.

The Permatrims are literally just a flat cutout plate bolted to the cavitation plate. No shape at all but some swear by them. Wish I could try them without drilling or voiding warranty.

The Stingray has a clamp on no drill version. Tried one of them myself on the Pro Line. It's somewhere Southeast of Islamorada. $100? On sale. Waste of money but seemed to help plane faster until it removed itself.
I think you're onto something regarding durability. They are everywhere on shallow water tunnel hulls on the Texas coast but its pretty well understood that they have a limited lifespan. Just the nature of the beast. I'm sure a more durable design could be come up with but if I had to guess, the cost/benefit ratio just isn't worth the trouble.
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt B View Post
Jesus, third time typing this on dang phone.

so, to your point, you want to increase trim and not airate props.

would a Permatrim hydrofoil help both? Increase bow trim with less engine trim AND protect prop from aeration?

Permatrim thought my cat was too big or too heavy, but I did not get a good explanation of why. Maybe too much stress on connection to OB?

If so, maybe a more flexible hydrofoilwould work. Stingrays are more flexible but less hydrodynamic. Met a guy with a 29 twin vee who had them and said they made a dramatic difference for him.




ok Brain trust... what do you think?
My experience has been, a DolFin type product is best suited for a smaller, light weight boat. You're asking the outboard's cav plate to give more leverage to lift the hull. Not a good idea on a large hull that will encounter rough conditions.

Raising the motors one hole should increase the rpm but I don't look for a dramatic change in speed or fuel economy. Either way, when dialing in performance, never do two things at the same time. Any adjustments in engine height, props, etc should be done one at a time so you can see if it helps or hurts. Two changes at the same time and you won't know which one did what.

My suggestion would be to wait until we launch the next two boats and run those numbers. One is configured just like Salty Sway and the other is similar to my demo. Both boats will be powered with 300 G2s. See how they do compared to the Suzuki's and it will be more clear if it's a hull speed issue or a difference in motors issue.

Like I said before, I'll run the numbers on my demo again and post all 4 read outs, ( 250 G2s, two different 300 G2s and the 300 Zuks) then the debate can begin.
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Old 06-28-2019, 07:04 AM
  #232  
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Dusky marine would be a good source to compared the Suzuki to the G2. They sell and rig both on there hulls and have direct comparison test results on the same hulls between the two on there line of boats. The Suzuki 300hp and the G2 300hp are within 1-2mph of each other on top end speed, slight edge to G2 on MPG.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:14 PM
  #233  
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The Kevla was designed for a sport/or larger forward cabin, so I am wondering if the hull wants a little more weight forward to lift the motors in the rear. Another theory I know, but I agree with Dave that the longer these cays get, the harder it will be to lift them with power, including the Permatrim, unless you also weight the hull push stuff back.

I also wonder what kind of fuel weight was orignally speced for their hull. What I have noted is that the shark and noosa are not as efficient in the larger sizes, and I think its because they are overbuilt and made with a lot of dead rise for southern seas.

But, I have never heard of a cat that did not benefit from adding Permatrims, , so even if they only help to level the hull I would be plopping down the $350 for a pair as we speak.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:06 PM
  #234  
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Here is the performance bulletin.



Now if we can just talk Dave into the 350's
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkDiaz View Post
Here is the performance bulletin.



Now if we can just talk Dave into the 350's
I think he just said they are heavy and not really needed when you get more than 52.8 mph from a pair of G2 250's.

Note also this boat in the flyer is not the same hull. Under 30 feet and 10.5 beam. It's similar but not the same. Wonder if they scaled up the 2800 or sliced up a mold to get it wider.

Broader each sponson by 8"? Widen the tunnel only by 15-16 inches? Looks like the latter.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:28 PM
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So you'd buy Twin 350's to get 2.8 more mph than you get with 250's and 300's?

40% more power for 5.7% more speed, and that's running light.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:35 PM
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Nope... they just scaled them up.

I just watched a small boat series where they went from Tampa to Frankfurt. Wonder if one could island hop from Queensland to Florida. It won't be me.
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Old 06-28-2019, 02:52 PM
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I went in and looked at the boat tests.

They are all very old. Few years ago I tried to contact KV. No answer. The website is up but I don't think they are really doing much these days.
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