Notices
The Boating Forum
Like Tree70Likes

boat almost sunk

Old 02-03-2019, 09:55 AM
  #81  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Long Island Sound, NY
Posts: 2,331
Default

Originally Posted by mystery View Post
So what do you do when both are out of service for the season or can't respond in a timely manner? and what if there is a PD or FD boat that CAN respond? As I have seen in the North east, local PD / harbor masters are usually the first on scene. Way ahead of USCG or tow boats. In fact, USCG will call on them to respond many times and respond whether their assistance is needed or not.
You dont call the 911 thats for sure. Boat US and Sea Tow will always have one boat in year round in the NE. And if the boat sinking is on a dock, they dont need a boat to get to it anyway.

CG will not put a pump in your boat unless theres people in it sinking in open water.
gregb5220 is online now  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:50 AM
  #82  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Originally Posted by gregb5220 View Post
You dont call the 911 thats for sure. Boat US and Sea Tow will always have one boat in year round in the NE. And if the boat sinking is on a dock, they dont need a boat to get to it anyway.

CG will not put a pump in your boat unless theres people in it sinking in open water.
again, in many cities/counties, the non-emergency number will forward to the same dispatch.

actually in the north east, especially this past week, towboat/seatow was iced in many places. some actually take their boats out of the water for jan-mar. and depending on the orientation and stability of the boat, they may need a boat in the water and OSHA requires a safety boat if anyone is going in the water or at risk of entering the water, even if they are going from land. that is why dive/salvage service prices sky rocket in december once the water dips below 50 degrees because they need a boat in the water alongside (again, even if entering from land).

i have seen and heard of CG offering their pump to boats sinking at a dock before. i think its up to their discretion and i doubt they have a hard and fast rule of not offering assistance at the dock.
mystery is online now  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:04 PM
  #83  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Long Island Sound, NY
Posts: 2,331
Default

Originally Posted by mystery View Post
again, in many cities/counties, the non-emergency number will forward to the same dispatch.

actually in the north east, especially this past week, towboat/seatow was iced in many places. some actually take their boats out of the water for jan-mar. and depending on the orientation and stability of the boat, they may need a boat in the water and OSHA requires a safety boat if anyone is going in the water or at risk of entering the water, even if they are going from land. that is why dive/salvage service prices sky rocket in december once the water dips below 50 degrees because they need a boat in the water alongside (again, even if entering from land).

i have seen and heard of CG offering their pump to boats sinking at a dock before. i think its up to their discretion and i doubt they have a hard and fast rule of not offering assistance at the dock.
I have to respectfully disagree on all points here, I'm in the salvage business.

The CG is not allowed to offer any pumps or assistance (in a non life threatening situation). It has to be offered to local commercial assistance first. If that is declined, than its up to the CG's discretion.

A safety boat is not needed for boats on docks. Its a lot easier, faster and cheaper to drive a pump to the dock in a truck than take a boat.

I dont know of any CAT companies that dont have at least one boat in the water year round, or can get one in at a moments notice. In Long Island Sound, we have duck hunters and commercial guys out all year.

Salvage rates dont skyrocket due to the weather or time of year. Its always the same, save for special circumstances (extreme depth, multiple boats).

Your best bet (after knowing how to keep your boat afloat) is to have local CAT service numbers in your phone, as well as local CG.
gregb5220 is online now  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:55 PM
  #84  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Originally Posted by mystery View Post
There are plenty of house fires where the home is unoccupied...so you think it should just burn to the ground without calling the FD?
You should just change your name to "job security". Because as long as they have people like you FD and PD personnel will always have a job. They'll never run out of calls.
miamisportsman is offline  
Old 02-03-2019, 01:11 PM
  #85  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Originally Posted by gregb5220 View Post
I have to respectfully disagree on all points here, I'm in the salvage business.

The CG is not allowed to offer any pumps or assistance (in a non life threatening situation). It has to be offered to local commercial assistance first. If that is declined, than its up to the CG's discretion.

A safety boat is not needed for boats on docks. Its a lot easier, faster and cheaper to drive a pump to the dock in a truck than take a boat.

I dont know of any CAT companies that dont have at least one boat in the water year round, or can get one in at a moments notice. In Long Island Sound, we have duck hunters and commercial guys out all year.

Salvage rates dont skyrocket due to the weather or time of year. Its always the same, save for special circumstances (extreme depth, multiple boats).

Your best bet (after knowing how to keep your boat afloat) is to have local CAT service numbers in your phone, as well as local CG.
ive seen plenty of situations first-hand including on the li sound where you operate. i have seen local PD/harbor master/fire offer assistance plenty of times including to leaking fuel and sinking boats (deploying boom, offering pump). many times local tow/salvage service was never engaged or arrived on scene to be declined and the local PD/harbor master was kind enough to complete a tow to a local dock. please cite the law/reg/whatever saying CG cannot offer assistance. i'd like to read it. how do they differentiate when they can and cannot offer assistance? what if a boat is high and dry aground? it seems weird if they are right there witnessing a sinking boat at the dock there is some rule that prohibits them from assisting...

all of the dive companies i called in december that were rushing to do jobs (i.e. zinc anode changes) before the water hit 50 degrees all referenced OSHA regulations saying once the water goes below 50 degrees they need a safety boat in the water even if they are diving from a dock. they all do salvage or assist in salvage operations. one even said assisting a sinking boat at the dock in cold temps requires a safety boat. i did not verify any of these osha regs so its possible they are misinformed and spreading false info, i dont know.
mystery is online now  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:15 PM
  #86  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Long Island Sound, NY
Posts: 2,331
Default

Originally Posted by mystery View Post
ive seen plenty of situations first-hand including on the li sound where you operate. i have seen local PD/harbor master/fire offer assistance plenty of times including to leaking fuel and sinking boats (deploying boom, offering pump). many times local tow/salvage service was never engaged or arrived on scene to be declined and the local PD/harbor master was kind enough to complete a tow to a local dock. please cite the law/reg/whatever saying CG cannot offer assistance. i'd like to read it. how do they differentiate when they can and cannot offer assistance? what if a boat is high and dry aground? it seems weird if they are right there witnessing a sinking boat at the dock there is some rule that prohibits them from assisting...

all of the dive companies i called in december that were rushing to do jobs (i.e. zinc anode changes) before the water hit 50 degrees all referenced OSHA regulations saying once the water goes below 50 degrees they need a safety boat in the water even if they are diving from a dock. they all do salvage or assist in salvage operations. one even said assisting a sinking boat at the dock in cold temps requires a safety boat. i did not verify any of these osha regs so its possible they are misinformed and spreading false info, i dont know.
This is the rule when it came into effect in the 80's. I'm not sure where the official rule is but I know its still in effect under a different title.

Coast Guard Commandant Instruction 16101.2, which is now in effect, states in layman terms that the Coast Guard no longer is required to come to the assistance of boaters who do not meet certain emergency criteria (threat to life, weather conditions, etc.). These non-emergency search and rescue cases will be referred to commercial enterprises (towing and salvage companies) if private towing companies are available and are found to be qualified by the Coast Guard.

They are allowed to offer assistance if there is imminent danger to life. If the boat is sinking, on fire, ready to capsize etc, they are allowed to help. Thats pretty easy to see. To be honest, usually a good Samaritan or local PD/CAT company gets there first anyway.

Still have never heard of a safety boat needing to be present in water temps under 50. In some places in Maine, the water barely gets above 50 degrees. Sounds like a gimmick to charge more.

Last edited by gregb5220; 02-03-2019 at 02:21 PM.
gregb5220 is online now  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:25 PM
  #87  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Originally Posted by gregb5220 View Post
This is the rule when it came into effect in the 80's. I'm not sure where the official rule is but I know its still in effect under a different title.

Coast Guard Commandant Instruction 16101.2, which is now in effect, states in layman terms that the Coast Guard no longer is required to come to the assistance of boaters who do not meet certain emergency criteria (threat to life, weather conditions, etc.). These non-emergency search and rescue cases will be referred to commercial enterprises (towing and salvage companies) if private towing companies are available and are found to be qualified by the Coast Guard.

They are allowed to offer assistance if there is imminent danger to life. If the boat is sinking, on fire, ready to capsize etc, they are allowed to help. Thats pretty easy to see.

Still have never heard of a safety boat needing to be present in water temps under 50. In some places in Maine, the water barely gets above 50 degrees. Sounds like a gimmick to charge more.
Ok so it says they are not required but they definitely do still assist as I've seen it myself and heard/read, i.e. a THT thread a couple years ago where they did help a THT'er with a pump while his boat was sinking at the dock. Back to the topic in this thread, local PD/FD/harbor patrol will assist in many jursidctions with a sinking boat or related emergency including booms, pumps, towing to ramp/town dock, etc. I've seen it all over the north east. Seatow/Towboat/salvage companies are typically not the first call in such a situation/emergency from what I've seen but they may be called upon and may assist if the situation exceeds the capability of the responding unit. Some towns are definitely more hands-on and willing to help than other towns. I always wondered if it had to do with some back door relationship with the local tow/salvage companies.

As for the water temp thing I may look up when I have some free time. First question would be OSHA's jurisdiction and whether it applies. I know they do have requirements for a skiff for operations/construction over/adjacent to water. I just found it interesting that there were multiple companies saying they require additional safety measures including a safety boat when the temps go below 50 and they all said there would be increased fees for such an operation. One also said their insurance required it.
mystery is online now  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:51 PM
  #88  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Originally Posted by mystery View Post
Ok so it says they are not required but they definitely do still assist as I've seen it myself and heard/read, i.e. a THT thread a couple years ago where they did help a THT'er with a pump while his boat was sinking at the dock. Back to the topic in this thread, local PD/FD/harbor patrol will assist in many jursidctions with a sinking boat or related emergency including booms, pumps, towing to ramp/town dock, etc. I've seen it all over the north east. Seatow/Towboat/salvage companies are typically not the first call in such a situation/emergency from what I've seen but they may be called upon and may assist if the situation exceeds the capability of the responding unit. Some towns are definitely more hands-on and willing to help than other towns. I always wondered if it had to do with some back door relationship with the local tow/salvage companies.

As for the water temp thing I may look up when I have some free time. First question would be OSHA's jurisdiction and whether it applies. I know they do have requirements for a skiff for operations/construction over/adjacent to water. I just found it interesting that there were multiple companies saying they require additional safety measures including a safety boat when the temps go below 50 and they all said there would be increased fees for such an operation. One also said their insurance required it.

There is no current OSHA requirement on working in cold weather/water. They have a guide for recommendations and non of them require assistance from FD or PD. They state that 911 should be called in the event of an emergency. Working in the cold is not an emergency.

miamisportsman is offline  
Old 02-03-2019, 02:53 PM
  #89  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Originally Posted by miamisportsman View Post
There is no current OSHA requirement on working in cold weather/water. They have a guide for recommendations and non of them require assistance from FD or PD. They state that 911 should be called in the event of an emergency. Working in the cold is not an emergency.
you are mixing things up. i was specifically talking about dive/salvage services saying they needed a safety tender in cold temps. nothing to do with calling 911. if there are no osha requirements for cold water temps then some dive/salvage services have some bad info. good to know. thanks.
mystery is online now  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:09 AM
  #90  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gulf Shores, Alabama
Posts: 4,049
Default

Our small town but professional fire department is made up of regular guys who live here. They are always eager to help anyone needing assistance. I believe they have three stations on our island. How often are all the units in-service? Virtually never! Would or should they respond to a call such as that of the OP? Yes, and they would respond. If another emergency needing the responding unit came to them they would be on their way.

The way it works in our area is different, perhaps, than how it works in Miami. We have many communities with small volunteer FDs. Our town FD will always respond if they call for help. Oh no, what if they are not available for a call in our town? Really guys, get real!

All this criticism of the OP is from people with no empathy for a guy finding his boat heeled over and partially filled with water. He was probably semi-panicked and did the first thing that came to mind. Put yourselves in his shoes for a minute.
Gnrphil, Cucumber and tvguy243 like this.
Butch Davis is offline  
Old 02-04-2019, 05:08 PM
  #91  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 411
Default

Originally Posted by Butch Davis View Post
Our small town but professional fire department is made up of regular guys who live here. They are always eager to help anyone needing assistance. I believe they have three stations on our island. How often are all the units in-service? Virtually never! Would or should they respond to a call such as that of the OP? Yes, and they would respond. If another emergency needing the responding unit came to them they would be on their way.

The way it works in our area is different, perhaps, than how it works in Miami. We have many communities with small volunteer FDs. Our town FD will always respond if they call for help. Oh no, what if they are not available for a call in our town? Really guys, get real!

All this criticism of the OP is from people with no empathy for a guy finding his boat heeled over and partially filled with water. He was probably semi-panicked and did the first thing that came to mind. Put yourselves in his shoes for a minute.
Thank's Butch. Hope none of the negative people ever have to experience that situation .
chictic is offline  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:41 AM
  #92  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Perhaps USCG Safe Boating D8 or Paul Barnard might comment on this thread with his experience in USCG assisting a boat that is sinking at a dock ? And specifically, how the decision making chart 4-1 he shared in another thread would be applied to a boat not underway?
mystery is online now  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:55 AM
  #93  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Vero Beach
Posts: 233
Default

I just arrested a girl this morning for abuse of 911, her boat wasn't sinking, but still Don't Call 911 because you want free services. We actually have real shit to deal with.
SHE GONE is offline  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:10 AM
  #94  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,388
Default

Originally Posted by SHE GONE View Post
I just arrested a girl this morning for abuse of 911, her boat wasn't sinking, but still Don't Call 911 because you want free services. We actually have real shit to deal with.
yea dont tell us the details of what she did or said....

i just read a news article that someone called 911 because someone gave them a dirty look

i think there is a big difference between someone calling 911 because of a dirty look and someone calling because of a sinking boat...
mystery is online now  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:14 AM
  #95  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Vero Beach
Posts: 233
Default

Originally Posted by mystery View Post
yea dont tell us the details of what she did or said....

i just read a news article that someone called 911 because someone gave them a dirty look

i think there is a big difference between someone calling 911 because of a dirty look and someone calling because of a sinking boat...
She didn't give a dirty look to anyone, but her boat (with no outriggers) wasn't sinking.
SHE GONE is offline  
Old 02-13-2019, 07:27 AM
  #96  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 380
Default

Originally Posted by Cucumber View Post
I used to watch Reno 911.

You wear those little Daisy Dukes while you bitch all day?

Go start your own thread on an EMT forum.
I want to apologize for not actually seeing your response towards me in a timely manner, and responding for your enjoyment. I'm not sure if I should be honored or concerned that you envision me in said uniform. Either way, it's clear you are among the self proclaimed first responders. Kudos to you.
DoughnutToo is offline  
Old 02-13-2019, 08:56 AM
  #97  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 40
Default

Ya know while this tread was interesting to read I must conclude that for me I dont think this guy winterized properly, may have missed something like shuting off a seacock on genorator or aircon or whatever, we had a boat go down in our marina around the time this thread was started, Marina man said the owner didnt winterize. So look yeah im not suprised he called 911, i dont agree with that, but he was probably suprised to confirm his own worries is my boat gonna sink bc i didnt winterize properly? Maybe i can get away with it this year? Who knows maybe didnt winterize at all, im just saying. I wouldve checked on it frequently and it doesnt sound like that happened here. Ill bet the marina called and said hey come here you gotta problem too. Before i wrap this up it hasnt been confirmed about the winterization from what i red.
Deebuah is offline  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:42 AM
  #98  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tuckerton Beach, N.J.
Posts: 1,067
Default

Originally Posted by DoughnutToo View Post
A day does not go by that a call is dispatched that i just shake my head. But guess what, we have to go and cannot tell you we are not coming. Maybe we work on a different level of customer service to the tax payers?
You should work on a different level of customer service to the taxpayers, they are paying your salary. Just do you job and leave the decision making to people who are better suited to deal with it.
Clamdigger II is offline  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:45 AM
  #99  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 380
Default

Originally Posted by Clamdigger II View Post
You should work on a different level of customer service to the taxpayers, they are paying your salary. Just do you job and leave the decision making to people who are better suited to deal with it.
By your response i also pay my salary and I should have more say. And unless you pay taxes in my city, you don’t pay my salary. Therefore your argument is invalid, as you are not a decision maker. Based on the comments in this thread, there are a number of you who should never be a “decision maker”.
DoughnutToo is offline  
Old 02-13-2019, 10:30 AM
  #100  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 40
Default

Originally Posted by DoughnutToo View Post


Based on the comments in this thread, there are a number of you who should never be a “decision maker”.
I agree some of the posts here made me cringe
Deebuah is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread