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My Barker Cat BOONDOGGLE

Old 05-02-2019, 06:53 PM
  #1081  
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Originally Posted by themossman View Post
There's a difference between taking an entire customer list and purchase history vs taking a list of sales transactions for which you have not been paid. Additionally, a commission must be earned in order to be realized...and that will be outlined in a commission plan. In some companies, taking an order is considered 'earning' a commission, others it may be customer taking delivery is when the commission is earned...and in others the commission could be earned on customer payment. So while I have no clue if/what Barker was claiming about 'unpaid' commissions...of one thing I can be sure...if you're due earned commissions...it a pretty easy case to predict the outcome...

Copying a bunch of customer data off a server on your last day is not right. Most good sales people I've ever worked with maintain their own spreadsheet of deals and earned commissions and do not rely on their companies CRM or accounting dept to tell them what they're owed.
I think you make a good point. On the last day does smell bad. It makes sense that a jumper should prepare for the landing before they're in the air. Doesn't seem like he was any more prepared to leave than he was to build a cat.


Originally Posted by Insider View Post
im in for 'bout tree fiddy
!
And that's how we know who the lock ness monsta is here on this thread


Originally Posted by johnboy114 View Post
hard to believe that Barker will probably not miss a beat through this,.
I disagree. Maybe he's has no ethics or maybe he does. He was deep into the boating industry and many a smoke, on this forum, was blowded up his kilt. The guy took a risk. Initially it was going well. But from what I've read here I don't think he intended to be a failure (or swindler) at building "high" end boats like he'd been selling for the conch copy'er.
He certainly made bigger mistakes than investing 250K in a business start up owned by former sales man with no prior experience manufacturing boats.
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Insider View Post
this statement is my personal opinion as a non-spokesman non-attorney that prefers LaQuinta
You should stay at a Holiday inn tonight
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ono loco View Post
Boy I bet they will be standing line to buy a boat who production is supervised by a guy that fleeced his former customers..

I think theres already another thread on THT regarding a criminal working for a boat sales company. This feels similar.

Best of luck to those involved. I wish there was some way our court system could unfuck this up and make the depositers whole.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:41 PM
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The whole thing reads like a Carl Hiaasen, S. Florida crime novel.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:50 PM
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Let's forgive all college debt, give reparations, and let circle mouth Barker continue to make boats after ripping off his customers.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:06 AM
  #1085  
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Originally Posted by hbouldin1216 View Post
I look at customers and relationships I've developed as my own proprietary data.
So...you don't take a base salary, don't use any company provided services(discover/rainking, salesforce, inbound leads, etc), pay all your expenses(including client lunches) and work commission only?

There's this perception by allot of salespeople that they 'own' the relationships(and resulting intelligence) they've created...but much like technology, it's owned by the business the funded the creation...similar to any technical innovation that an engineer may develop while working for a company. Sure there's a 'grey' area...but the data belongs to the company that invested $ into creating it. IMHO, if you take data with you, its equivalent to theft...you're taking something you don't own the rights to.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:24 AM
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Ray, has it been determined yet what percentage of deposits were actually allocated to the cat project?... from a non-attorney non-boatbuilder outsider, it looks like very little...
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Old 05-03-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by themossman View Post
So...you don't take a base salary, don't use any company provided services(discover/rainking, salesforce, inbound leads, etc), pay all your expenses(including client lunches) and work commission only?

There's this perception by allot of salespeople that they 'own' the relationships(and resulting intelligence) they've created...but much like technology, it's owned by the business the funded the creation...similar to any technical innovation that an engineer may develop while working for a company. Sure there's a 'grey' area...but the data belongs to the company that invested $ into creating it. IMHO, if you take data with you, its equivalent to theft...you're taking something you don't own the rights to.
Any half decent business has non-competes in place for this sort of thing.

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Old 05-03-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hbouldin1216 View Post
Every salesman keeps their own list; that's just the way the game goes. But swiping proprietary/technical data is illegal and any company that would hire that person and use that information deserves whatever ass pounding they get. I look at customers and relationships I've developed as my own proprietary data.
Somehow, I don't think the company paying you thinks that way, unless you are 100% commission, with no draw or salary.

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Old 05-03-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by nexxxt214 View Post
Any half decent business has non-competes in place for this sort of thing.
NDA will be far more effective than a non-compete (at least that's our attorneys have advised) as there's many states that don't look fondly on non-competes (Florida being one as it's a 'right to work' state).
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by themossman View Post
So...you don't take a base salary, don't use any company provided services(discover/rainking, salesforce, inbound leads, etc), pay all your expenses(including client lunches) and work commission only?

There's this perception by allot of salespeople that they 'own' the relationships(and resulting intelligence) they've created...but much like technology, it's owned by the business the funded the creation...similar to any technical innovation that an engineer may develop while working for a company. Sure there's a 'grey' area...but the data belongs to the company that invested $ into creating it. IMHO, if you take data with you, its equivalent to theft...you're taking something you don't own the rights to.
Didn't the Florida Court system disagree with you?
Originally Posted by nexxxt214 View Post
Any half decent business has non-competes in place for this sort of thing.
They're hard to enforce. For example I lived in one state that basically said "as long as you don't solicit existing customers for the same type of product they're illegal." The hairdresser example was the easiest. If a hairdresser (who routinely had an appointment book with customer phone numbers) left one salon for another, they would only be in violation if they called their old clients. If they advertised openly about a new hair salon, and their old customers reached out, they were fine.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
Didn't the Florida Court system disagree with you?.
??? you realize you included the IMHO in your quote....if you're not familiar that means 'in my humble opinion'...


Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
They're hard to enforce. For example I lived in one state that basically said "as long as you don't solicit existing customers for the same type of product they're illegal." The hairdresser example was the easiest. If a hairdresser (who routinely had an appointment book with customer phone numbers) left one salon for another, they would only be in violation if they called their old clients. If they advertised openly about a new hair salon, and their old customers reached out, they were fine.
and thank you for solidifying my point....
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:09 AM
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https://www.bizbuysell.com/Business-...mpaign=htmlbot
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:01 AM
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I bid one American dollar
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Old 05-04-2019, 01:30 PM
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My understanding is that another builder has purchased Barker and they are in bankruptcy. https://www.inforuptcy.com/filings/f...-boatworks-llc
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Old 05-04-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
I bid one American dollar
Careful, the sale may come with debt.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by raysmith View Post

The bankruptcy court has listed all deposit holders as purchasers not investors
I hope for your sack that is what is determined through discharge.

Originally Posted by China Rider View Post
Bankruptcies discharge unsecured debt. We have BK laws or debtors prisons. That's why rates on credit cards are so high.

Since the plug hasn't even been paid for, it's clear that most of the deposit money never made it to the Cat project. If those funds were used to keep the business afloat and not towards a lavish lifestyle for Barker, would that be criminal, or just bad business?

Redadele has an arrogant and distasteful online demeanor.
I surely did not know being truthful was arrogant and distasteful.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by redadele View Post
I hope for your sack that is what is determined through discharge.


I surely did not know being truthful was arrogant and distasteful.
I don't understand why people have been jumping your case here. You clearly stated that you hoped things worked out for the OP. But you also echoed the advice that I've seen posted by lawyers everywhere; if you are involved in a lawsuit - don't discuss it on the internet, or elsewhere, as it could be used against you. You clearly weren't being malicious towards the OP, just offering advice that is pretty standard.

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Old 05-06-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rickpcfl View Post
I don't understand why people have been jumping your case here. You clearly stated that you hoped things worked out for the OP. But you also echoed the advice that I've seen posted by lawyers everywhere; if you are involved in a lawsuit - don't discuss it on the internet, or elsewhere, as it could be used against you. You clearly weren't being malicious towards the OP, just offering advice that is pretty standard.

everyone’s a lawyer on THT. Even the ones that say “please post the details for us to read”

remember, 99% of the folks don’t give a shit what happens to the OP...they just want to read the dirt

whether it comes from the plaintiff directly or Radar Online. No one cares
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Old 05-06-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hbouldin1216 View Post
Every salesman keeps their own list; that's just the way the game goes. But swiping proprietary/technical data is illegal and any company that would hire that person and use that information deserves whatever ass pounding they get. I look at customers and relationships I've developed as my own proprietary data.
All depends on who you work for. Are you a middleman connecting customers with businesses? Then yes, the customer list is yours. If you work for the company and it is your job to find customers then the list is the company's. To put it another way, if you stopped working with a company would the customers stop doing business with the company and come with you?
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rickpcfl View Post
I don't understand why people have been jumping your case here. You clearly stated that you hoped things worked out for the OP. But you also echoed the advice that I've seen posted by lawyers everywhere; if you are involved in a lawsuit - don't discuss it on the internet, or elsewhere, as it could be used against you. You clearly weren't being malicious towards the OP, just offering advice that is pretty standard.
I feel the exact same way, especially when I am being accused of being someone else, being told to shut my mouth, being told that I am classless and being told that I am just a cocky attorney. I believe the biggest reason for such attacks is that some responders are just too lazy to read the entire thread before they attack a comment or it's author. In fact, sometimes they are too lazy to read the entire comment that they choose to attack. Regardless, I have thick skin and have been threw a lot worst than a few dumb knutts making false personal attacks because they are too stupid or too lazy or both to find out the real facts.

Caution: I tried to use the most basic language I could to respond. I hope that special someone has someone who can interpret my response since it was not done in sixth grade language as I previously promised.
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