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Suzuki DF140 question...

Old 01-12-2019, 11:55 AM
  #21  
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:27 PM
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How do you know that there is no moisture in the foam of your boat? Only weight can tell you that--unless you have access to the bottom of the foam. There can be hundreds of lbs of water trapped.

With that hull configuration, you can only tell if the motor height is proper by observation under way at planing speed.

I had a 25.5' pilot house cat Boat weight in the 7500# range light boat.--with 150 Suzuki's and ran 4 blade 22" pitch--top speed light boat was right at 50 mph and RPM 6000. The Permatrims were just skimming the surface of the water. I put them on to attempt to get a lower planing speed--I got it--but it was throwing so much water up and off to the sides, I virtually never ran at that very low planing speed.

I also have an 18 foot Caracal Cat with exactly the same engine you have. I run a single engine, with a 19" pitch 4 blade prop--get my max speed of 36 knots at 6,000 RPM--again the anti ventilation plate is just at the surface.

Some people have been using the term "sponson". Sponsons are projections extending from the sides of watercraft to provide protection, stability, storage locations, mounting points, or equipment housing. What you have is a catamaran and it has two hulls.
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:09 PM
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Okay, now I think I’m screwed. Doing the maintenance before replacing the IAC and this is how my oil came out...
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:25 PM
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That oil is dirty, but it doesn’t look real bad. What is your concern?
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:44 PM
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That oil looks a little strange to me, and that oil in the pan looks funky. I don't know what's up with the swirls in the pan. My oil comes out looking all the same color - amber.
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:57 PM
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Chocolate color and very runny, never been that way. Water in it. Usually comes out black and thicker.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:43 PM
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You may want to check the oil cooler behind the oil filter. It may be letting water into the crankcase. Remove, inspect and possibly replace.
You may also want to do a leak-down test. Harbor Freight has the kit, if you don't want to spend a fortune.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:49 PM
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As other stated...You have water in that oil! Need to determine why!!
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Inlander View Post
If your speed at WOT is less than about 45+ mph with the 22” pitch, then you have too much pitch.

Before repropping, get the height of the motors optimized. There is a big swing in RPM as engine height is adjusted. Engine height first; prop adjustment second. The prop should allow the engine to run at 6200 RPM at WOT.
First thing I'd do is have the engine tachometers verified for accuracy. They have different settings for different # of cylinders, and not all are setup properly. Then you go to the propeller pitch. Last item to consider is the engine height.

Remember that Suzuki motors are not like the other outboards. They have a planetary gear in the driveshaft which makes the final gear ratio to be very "low." That means you have to push a very high pitch, large diameter propeller. In some places, marine mechanics are not really experienced at setting up Suzuki motors.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:23 PM
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A planetary gear?
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Fred View Post
That oil looks a little strange to me, and that oil in the pan looks funky. I don't know what's up with the swirls in the pan. My oil comes out looking all the same color - amber.
not too sure what you mean about the oil pan looking funky, are you referring to the bucket he has the oil in?
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:59 PM
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Hard to say for sure by the pics but it appears that you have water in the oil. You might get lucky and it just be the oil cooler. We weren't. If it's the oil cooler, you'll see a sheen on the water behind the boat at idle. Oil cooler is behind the oil filter. You can bypass it with a brass nipple, just connect the water lines in and out together with that nipple. Change the oil and run it again. Oil cooler is a completely unnecessary part. Has since been engineered out. We had twin 03 DF140s on our Seacat SL5C. They both developed holes in the heads dumping cooling water into the combustion chambers and creating milky oil. Pretty much a death sentence from a monetary standpoint if it turns out to be the head like ours. Hope you are more fortunate.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:25 PM
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The fact that oil is milky and engine doesn't want to hold idle (occurring simultaneously), I would guesstimate that internal corrosion compromised barrier between water and oil
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by noelm View Post

not too sure what you mean about the oil pan looking funky, are you referring to the bucket he has the oil in?
Yup, exactly. Whatever it is he drained it into. I am seeing swirls in the stuff he drained out and that makes it look like 2 different liquids came out of that motor. Bummer.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:41 AM
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Yeah, right now I'm looking at checking the oil cooler, then head gasket and powerhead to see what the situation is. I'm fearing the worse.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:14 AM
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Water in the crankcase oil turns the oil yellow and is opaque. I don’t see that in the sample pictured. Pour some oil into a clear cup and look at it from the side. Those swirls in the bucket of oil may be sludge, not water. Double check by changing the oil and filter again and run it.. If it turns yellow then you know it’s water.

If it is water not likely caused by the oil cooler, because oil pressure should be higher than water pressure, potentially allowing oil to leak out, not water in. Potentially could be caused by a leaking engine holder gasket. Remove the power head and replace. If not the cause, then consider yourself screwed.

But I don’t think that is water but it is hard to be sure the way it was photographed.
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bnz View Post
Props say 14 x 22, Suzuki prop. Hull in good shape with no waterlog.

So so how do I adjust engine height if need be? I’ve never really looked at the motors when running to see how low they are sitting. Going to have to do that now.
I have the same hull and originally had 2003 DF115's with the same props (14X22). I would hit 5900 RPMs with those. I re-powered to new DF 140's with the same size prop and am between 6100-6200 WOT. Those are the correct 3-blade wheels unless you are running really heavy. I don't have permatrims which may be causing you some extra drag but not 1000 RPMs worth of losses.

Edit: I read the rest of posts and see you have oil in the water now. Replace! I tried to rebuild and replace the powerhead and nothing but issues. Got it back together and running and the other motor started to show the same signs. Time to move on from these. They won't be worth the rebuild cost and time.
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Last edited by Gator97dwb; 01-14-2019 at 07:57 AM. Reason: read the rest of the posts
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Gator97dwb View Post
I have the same hull and originally had 2003 DF115's with the same props (14X22). I would hit 5900 RPMs with those. I re-powered to new DF 140's with the same size prop and am between 6100-6200 WOT. Those are the correct 3-blade wheels unless you are running really heavy. I don't have permatrims which may be causing you some extra drag but not 1000 RPMs worth of losses.

Edit: I read the rest of posts and see you have oil in the water now. Replace! I tried to rebuild and replace the powerhead and nothing but issues. Got it back together and running and the other motor started to show the same signs. Time to move on from these. They won't be worth the rebuild cost and time.
What Gator said is true. Its better to bite the bullet now and replace with new. Keep in mind how much you can sell those motors for when doing the repairs. Probably 3k tops. Why dump more money into a motor than it is worth?

I also have 14/22 props on my cat with new DF-140's I can hit 46mph with them and need to go up in pitch. Those motors should hit 6k wide open.
I also repowered from DF-115's. I should have went 150's or 175's though. Not a measurable improvement at all over the 115's
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kurttruk View Post
I should have went 150's or 175's though. Not a measurable improvement at all over the 115's
I was considering the same thing as the 115/140's make the same HP/torque curve through the RPM range. 140's just go to 6200 versus 6000. Those 150's are on a bigger block and create a lot more power. The extra 50lbs. per motor and exceeding the max. hp rating scared me away. Along with the significant price jump. I also think fuel economy would have suffered. Oddly I went up 4 mph on my peak economical cruise RPM's (4200-4500). That has to be from a combination of not having counter rotating props before and the old props maybe being out of shape a bit by the time I got them.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:46 AM
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The oil cooler is the very first thing to check, it's common and will let water into the oil regardless of the oil pressure business posted earlier.
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