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Any unhappy Evinrude G2 owners out there?

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Any unhappy Evinrude G2 owners out there?

Old 01-11-2018, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by timothyj View Post
Both Motors will serve for longer than the environments will allow. Time, non use and poor maintenance are the biggest offenders here. EARLY two strokes, in theory, wouid not last as long as a four stroke due to poor lubrication. That is no longer an issue. There is nothing to say that current 2 stroke outboards will not last as long as current 4 strokes. Def has nothing to do with the physics of it.
NMMA says average recreational use is about 50 hours annually. That equates to 1000 hours in 20 years. My old 2-stroke 150 is 26 years old, with about 1400 hours on it. Still running strong.

Point being, for recreational purposes most outboards will be replaced due to age deterioration or obsolescence, rather than from actual service life wear and tear.

The typical recreational owner would probably be happy if they could confidently purchase a 2K hours engine. I'd be surprised if there are any outboards on the market today that won't do that easily.

Commercial operators and those who clock hours well beyond the average probably feel differently. But the manufacturers of recreational engines are focussed on the mass market, not the outliers.
Old 01-11-2018, 06:17 AM
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I'd be interested to know if the 2-stroke is actually better for light use and worse for heavy use because of the difference... What I'm thinking about is that the four stroke has oil which more completely and heavily cycles all the internal parts and is formulated only for lubrication, vs. two stroke oil applied much more strategically and formulated for lubrication and combustion, so the four stroke design seems to have a higher limit for lubrication, however, the four stroke oil also get contaminated with use and in a motor being used infrequently, that contamination will have much more time to do damage than in a motor used regularly, whereas the two stroke is always cycling "clean" oil.

I have no idea if that is a real difference, just seemed reasonable.
Old 01-11-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas 17 View Post
I'd be interested to know if the 2-stroke is actually better for light use and worse for heavy use because of the difference... What I'm thinking about is that the four stroke has oil which more completely and heavily cycles all the internal parts and is formulated only for lubrication, vs. two stroke oil applied much more strategically and formulated for lubrication and combustion, so the four stroke design seems to have a higher limit for lubrication, however, the four stroke oil also get contaminated with use and in a motor being used infrequently, that contamination will have much more time to do damage than in a motor used regularly, whereas the two stroke is always cycling "clean" oil.

I have no idea if that is a real difference, just seemed reasonable.
4 Strokes utilize babbit bearings for the crank/rod/cam which must be constantly/thoroughly lubed and preferably with at least 10 PSI per 1000 RPM. 2 Strokes use needle/roller bearings which by comparison are not nearly so lubrication critical. So yes the 4 stroke is a better lube but is not an advantage per se but a requirement.
Old 01-11-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
You have to explain that or back it up with data because the physics behind a two stroke and 4 stroke says otherwise.
what about the physics says otherwise. The only difference between a two stroke and 4 stroke outboard is the interior of the engine. There are lots of other parts on an outboard. There is no real difference in lower ends, fuel delivery, except dfi or efi, electrical components, etc. So, a 4 stroke has valves, and splashes used oil up on the cylinder wall for lubrication. The 2 stroke has direct injection and squirts fresh oil constantly on its bearings and cylinder wall and uses better bearings to start with. Do you think the cylinder will wear more with fresh oil or used oil on it. better bearing with fresh oil squirted on it or cheaper bearing bathed in old oil? Any of the combustion parts will last longer than any of us will need, as the rest of the motor, which is the same on either style, will break, rot or fail first.
Old 01-11-2018, 12:45 PM
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The 'Modern' 2 stroke uses the oil first on the bearings then burns it. Much less of it in fact. The older more fuel hungry 2 strokes mixed the gas and oil so the bearings were bathed in what could be considered the lightest of oils that lubricate and carry away heat.

I once thought the roller bearings were superior but the truth is they operate with very little lubrication. They don't work so well in 4 stroke engines where most force is in 1/4 of the cycle where in 2 strokes it spread over half the cycle. For pure strength the oil bearing has far more load carrying capacity.

Oddly enough the G2 engines still use needle bearings on the crank. Not enough oil to support oil bearings.
Old 01-11-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post

Oddly enough the G2 engines still use needle bearings on the crank. Not enough oil to support oil bearings.
Roller bearings, not needle bearings, are used on the crank and rod big ends. A special ball bearing on the bottom of the crank carries the thrust component. Needle bearings are used on the wrist pins. This well-proven design has been in use on mid-size and higher horsepower engines for over 50 years by all major makes of outboards.

These types of anti-friction bearings only require a lubricant mist for longevity and load carrying capacity.
Old 01-11-2018, 01:39 PM
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What is it with the forum that a crew of muppets just searches for something to nit-pic about in every post. Literally seconds after it was posted. Asshole harpies in their underwear.

Needle is just a long skinny roller bearing and the prints didn't show the actual rollers. Should i have counted them so the number of parts in a 2 stroke exceeds the 4 strokes so we can argue about that? Should I have given a class on all types of roller bearings?

If rollers of any flavor were superior they'd be used on diesel, 4 strokes, and gas turbines. The point was AND IS they are used in applications where there is a certainty of very little oil available, tolerances aren't as critical and loads are less, I.E. two stroke engines and these G2's burn a lot less oil than the old style 2 strokes.

Where's Miss Piggy when someone needs a smack?
Old 01-11-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
What is it with the forum that a crew of muppets just searches for something to nit-pic about in every post. Literally seconds after it was posted. Asshole harpies in their underwear.

Needle is just a long skinny roller bearing and the prints didn't show the actual rollers. Should i have counted them so the number of parts in a 2 stroke exceeds the 4 strokes so we can argue about that? Should I have given a class on all types of roller bearings?

If rollers of any flavor were superior they'd be used on diesel, 4 strokes, and gas turbines. The point was AND IS they are used in applications where there is a certainty of very little oil available, tolerances aren't as critical and loads are less, I.E. two stroke engines and these G2's burn a lot less oil than the old style 2 strokes.

Where's Miss Piggy when someone needs a smack?
Pretty sure seahorse is none of what you just described but rather a VERY knowledgeable contributor with more Exp and expertise than perhaps all of us combined when it comes to outboard Motors .
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
What is it with the forum that a crew of muppets just searches for something to nit-pic about in every post. Literally seconds after it was posted. Asshole harpies in their underwear.

Needle is just a long skinny roller bearing and the prints didn't show the actual rollers. Should i have counted them so the number of parts in a 2 stroke exceeds the 4 strokes so we can argue about that? Should I have given a class on all types of roller bearings?

If rollers of any flavor were superior they'd be used on diesel, 4 strokes, and gas turbines. The point was AND IS they are used in applications where there is a certainty of very little oil available, tolerances aren't as critical and loads are less, I.E. two stroke engines and these G2's burn a lot less oil than the old style 2 strokes.

Where's Miss Piggy when someone needs a smack?

I didn't hear his correction as harsh or nitpicky, fwiw.
Old 01-11-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
What is it with the forum that a crew of muppets just searches for something to nit-pic about in every post. Literally seconds after it was posted. Asshole harpies in their underwear.

Needle is just a long skinny roller bearing and the prints didn't show the actual rollers. Should i have counted them so the number of parts in a 2 stroke exceeds the 4 strokes so we can argue about that? Should I have given a class on all types of roller bearings?

If rollers of any flavor were superior they'd be used on diesel, 4 strokes, and gas turbines. The point was AND IS they are used in applications where there is a certainty of very little oil available, tolerances aren't as critical and loads are less, I.E. two stroke engines and these G2's burn a lot less oil than the old style 2 strokes.

Where's Miss Piggy when someone needs a smack?
You may not be familiar with Seahorse. He works and has been working on many makes of motors for a long time. He doesn't show up to fight. Makes corrections and additions where he feels necessary. There are VERY few like him on here. Like EF Hutton, people generally heed his advice.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:05 PM
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Seems connected at the hip with BRP and previously to OMC.



[/B]
Originally Posted by pstephens46 View Post
You may not be familiar with Seahorse. He works and has been working on many makes of motors for a long time. He doesn't show up to fight. Makes corrections and additions where he feels necessary. There are VERY few like him on here. Like EF Hutton, people generally heed his advice.
Old 01-11-2018, 03:15 PM
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Rod forces in a 4 stroke go from tension to compression as it cycles from intake to compression. The clearance needed for a roller bearing is larger than for a standard plain oil fed bearing. Roller bearing big ends on a 4 stroke rattle the rollers around as the forces reverse unless clearances are kept tight.

Many older 2 stroke motors use plain bearings with premix..though lower horsepower and richer oil mix.

Everude has it right with oil fed rollers for their 2 strokes imho...best of both worlds.
Old 01-11-2018, 03:18 PM
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Seahorse crediantals I’m sure speak for them self.

Pretty sure he knows a wee little more than you do.


Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
What is it with the forum that a crew of muppets just searches for something to nit-pic about in every post. Literally seconds after it was posted. Asshole harpies in their underwear.

Needle is just a long skinny roller bearing and the prints didn't show the actual rollers. Should i have counted them so the number of parts in a 2 stroke exceeds the 4 strokes so we can argue about that? Should I have given a class on all types of roller bearings?

If rollers of any flavor were superior they'd be used on diesel, 4 strokes, and gas turbines. The point was AND IS they are used in applications where there is a certainty of very little oil available, tolerances aren't as critical and loads are less, I.E. two stroke engines and these G2's burn a lot less oil than the old style 2 strokes.

Where's Miss Piggy when someone needs a smack?
Old 01-11-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by manitunc View Post
what about the physics says otherwise. The only difference between a two stroke and 4 stroke outboard is the interior of the engine. There are lots of other parts on an outboard. There is no real difference in lower ends, fuel delivery, except dfi or efi, electrical components, etc. So, a 4 stroke has valves, and splashes used oil up on the cylinder wall for lubrication. The 2 stroke has direct injection and squirts fresh oil constantly on its bearings and cylinder wall and uses better bearings to start with. Do you think the cylinder will wear more with fresh oil or used oil on it. better bearing with fresh oil squirted on it or cheaper bearing bathed in old oil? Any of the combustion parts will last longer than any of us will need, as the rest of the motor, which is the same on either style, will break, rot or fail first.
How is a roller bearing a better bearing than a plain bearing? Or, is it better in some ways but maybe not better in other ways?

Will a tiny bit of fresh oil on a roller bearing result in less wear than a lot of used oil on a plain bearing?
Old 01-11-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
What is it with the forum that a crew of muppets just searches for something to nit-pic about in every post. Literally seconds after it was posted. Asshole harpies in their underwear.

Needle is just a long skinny roller bearing and the prints didn't show the actual rollers. Should i have counted them so the number of parts in a 2 stroke exceeds the 4 strokes so we can argue about that? Should I have given a class on all types of roller bearings?

If rollers of any flavor were superior they'd be used on diesel, 4 strokes, and gas turbines. The point was AND IS they are used in applications where there is a certainty of very little oil available, tolerances aren't as critical and loads are less, I.E. two stroke engines and these G2's burn a lot less oil than the old style 2 strokes.

Where's Miss Piggy when someone needs a smack?
One mans needle might be another mans roller. A needle is a roller but is a roller a needle?
Old 01-11-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by alloyboy View Post
One mans needle might be another mans roller. A needle is a roller but is a roller a needle?
If the rolling element diameter is 10% or more of the outer race diameter it is a roller.

A roller element will take more abuse than a plain hydrodynamic bearing.
Old 01-11-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HighSpeedPursuit View Post
Seems connected at the hip with BRP and previously to OMC.



[/B]
He works on them, so that makes sense.

It's like saying, man that Chevy master tech sure likes to work on chevys.
Old 01-11-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by manitunc View Post
what about the physics says otherwise. The only difference between a two stroke and 4 stroke outboard is the interior of the engine. There are lots of other parts on an outboard. There is no real difference in lower ends, fuel delivery, except dfi or efi, electrical components, etc. So, a 4 stroke has valves, and splashes used oil up on the cylinder wall for lubrication. The 2 stroke has direct injection and squirts fresh oil constantly on its bearings and cylinder wall and uses better bearings to start with. Do you think the cylinder will wear more with fresh oil or used oil on it. better bearing with fresh oil squirted on it or cheaper bearing bathed in old oil? Any of the combustion parts will last longer than any of us will need, as the rest of the motor, which is the same on either style, will break, rot or fail first.
Lubrication is not the only factor.....although a dedicated oiling system is still superior, IMO. Another reason that given all things equal (maintenance is done perfect) is what defines a "two stroke". That is, you have an explosion every 2 strokes instead of 4 strokes. This wears the motor out faster. Now I know your comeback is going to point out the modern two stroke's engineering such as the side torque exhaust and everything else but this engineering doesn't eliminate the physics that the two stroke spends it's life under twice as many explosions. But I will agree that for the average recreational boater, engine longevity may not be a factor.
Old 01-11-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
Lubrication is not the only factor.....although a dedicated oiling system is still superior, IMO. Another reason that given all things equal (maintenance is done perfect) is what defines a "two stroke". That is, you have an explosion every 2 strokes instead of 4 strokes. This wears the motor out faster. Now I know your comeback is going to point out the modern two stroke's engineering such as the side torque exhaust and everything else but this engineering doesn't eliminate the physics that the two stroke spends it's life under twice as many explosions. But I will agree that for the average recreational boater, engine longevity may not be a factor.
One can put money on the fact the g2 will put out more total gross horsepower during its serviceable life than any other outboard today.
Old 01-11-2018, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
Lubrication is not the only factor.....although a dedicated oiling system is still superior, IMO. Another reason that given all things equal (maintenance is done perfect) is what defines a "two stroke". That is, you have an explosion every 2 strokes instead of 4 strokes. This wears the motor out faster. Now I know your comeback is going to point out the modern two stroke's engineering such as the side torque exhaust and everything else but this engineering doesn't eliminate the physics that the two stroke spends it's life under twice as many explosions. But I will agree that for the average recreational boater, engine longevity may not be a factor.
you just proved how a 2 stroke is superior

twice as many explosions, sure, but each explosion is less cylinder pressure than a 4 stroke.

this is shown via compression ratios and actual compression readings at cranking speed.

I've never looking at it, but one thing I suspect that Etec does to get it's really good fuel economy is raise the compression ratio. Since it's direct injected, the engineers don't have to worry a whole bunch about detonation.
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