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Old 11-14-2017, 02:03 AM   #1
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Default New outboard technology & environment

At least this has been a big step forward........ clean burning outboards that don't sputter out fuel, oil into the water & air pollution .

We're getting there...... as old carb motors SLOWLY get replaced with the 4 strokes, and clean burn 2 strokes.

Log that from Maine to Florida, and around the entire gulf and we're doing something good for our marine environment.......!
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:11 AM   #2
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Well at least some part of the environment is saved. However, what is the environmental impact of producing in some cases 100 to 150 extra pounds of materials that go into making the 4-strokes and clean burn 2-strokes?
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:53 AM   #3
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Not totally convinced that the environmental impact is eliminated. I live on a small lake surrounded by 29 houses. Motors are not allowed. Paddle boats, canoes, sail, etc are allowed. Nearby, there is another lake that is bigger and allows motor boats and jet skis. Our lake is clean and with excellent water quality. The lake with motor boats has the dark sooty ring around the shoreline and contaminants in the water.
Clean combustion is better, but not completely contaminant-free...unless you're burning Propane or Nat Gas.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:48 AM   #4
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How many people on the motor lake have 3 star motors? It doesn't take many old technology 2 strokes to oil up the water.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:07 AM   #5
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I guess there will come a day where you don't go to the local boat ramp and get the 2-stroke smell
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:11 AM   #6
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The problem with this assumption is that it does not take into account for the myriad of pollutants that modern engines and fuels produce. It is very common to replace fuel lines, hoses, fuel tanks, filters... very often due to the use of alcohol fuels. Eco-friendly" fuels have filled land fills with MTBE that has found its way into may water tables...the contaminated fuel related parts, from alcohol fuels, that are currently produced would astound most alternative fuel advocates...Current motors require oil changes, oil filters, fuel system cleanings...that were not required before the more "eco-friendly" fuels and motors...most of this waste ends up in land fills....one could make the reasonable argument that the whole genesis to modern motors and fuels has done very little in terms of overall decreases in pollution...
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:32 AM   #7
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I would argue it is a huge improvement. Old carbed two strokes that spat unburnt oil and gas into the water were responsible for the degradation of many coral reefs. The newer stuff is definitely cleaner. That being said it's far from perfect and still dirties sh*t up. Electric cars nowadays seem vastly superior to gas cars in almost every conceivable way, which is why I will never buy another gas car. However, when it comes to something that needs to be buoyant to be efficient, the energy density of batteries is too low to make electric boating a viable option. Well there scenarios where it would make more sense to have an electric boat, but not many. I would imagine electric powered boats will start to become more prevalent and eventually take over. I just think this process will trail way behind automobiles
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:41 AM   #8
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You also have to take into consideration the number of boaters have doubled in the last 10 years. Even if the new engines are producing "less" emissions the number of boaters didn't remain constant.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:41 AM   #9
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It's definitely a huge improvement over the older motors. But make no mistake, boating around at 1-5 mpg is not an environmentally friendly hobby.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatbill View Post
I would argue it is a huge improvement. Old carbed two strokes that spat unburnt oil and gas into the water were responsible for the degradation of many coral reefs. The newer stuff is definitely cleaner. That being said it's far from perfect and still dirties sh*t up. Electric cars nowadays seem vastly superior to gas cars in almost every conceivable way, which is why I will never buy another gas car. However, when it comes to something that needs to be buoyant to be efficient, the energy density of batteries is too low to make electric boating a viable option. Well there scenarios where it would make more sense to have an electric boat, but not many. I would imagine electric powered boats will start to become more prevalent and eventually take over. I just think this process will trail way behind automobiles
Electric cars, in areas where the power grid is provided by coal plants, just moves the pollution source from the tailpipe to the smokestack. If nuclear plants, then there is less environmental impact. There have been numerous studies on this.

Then there is the additional environmental impact of manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

Unfortunately EV's are a band-aid, not a real solution, until there are some real technology breakthroughs in terms of electricity generation and storage.....
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #11
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Yep, some people can't wait for the day when we'll be walking instead of riding because cars burn gas and rowing instead of cruising because outboards are dirty.

Optimists think that day will come. Personally, I'm not too sure.

Burn it if you got it. Rev it up if you can.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:36 AM   #12
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In the overall scheme of things, I wonder how much impact leisure boating has - you're cruising along and then a great big container ship passes you carrying all sorts of consumer goods that are not really needed from China, S Korea and Japan, and I think worrying about the age of your outboard is like worrying about having a fart as you cross the road in rush-hour New York traffic.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:06 PM   #13
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In the overall scheme of things, I wonder how much impact leisure boating has - you're cruising along and then a great big container ship passes you carrying all sorts of consumer goods that are not really needed from China, S Korea and Japan, and I think worrying about the age of your outboard is like worrying about having a fart as you cross the road in rush-hour New York traffic.
This sounds like a very American way of looking at it. Did you relocate across the pond?
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:02 PM   #14
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Electric cars, in areas where the power grid is provided by coal plants, just moves the pollution source from the tailpipe to the smokestack... There have been numerous studies on this...
Yes, there have been numerous studies on this and the most complete and up-to-date ones show that EVs are a net benefit pollution wise even when run in areas powered by coal, and even when you consider the manufacturing of the batteries.

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles...s#.WgtIY8anGUk

Sure, you can find some articles that state otherwise but they always have a caveat where they didn't consider mining, drilling, or they are just someone's opinion.

And as the US displaces coal with natural gas and renewables, the difference is just going to increase further.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:23 PM   #15
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Electric cars still need a healthy dose of tax money to be economically viable. You get the immediate rebate, a break on the electricity in a lot of places and there are other incentives for the manufactures.
I can understand them for a commuter car or for running errands around town but most people are still going to need a real car or truck unless it is a plug in hybrid that can run forever on gasoline/diesel.
I still could not make fiscal sense out of one when I ran the numbers. That was even true if I was doing a conversion on a car I already owned with labor for free.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:28 PM   #16
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the big problem with most clean air studies is who funds them- its always about the money
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:31 PM   #17
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Yes, there have been numerous studies on this and the most complete and up-to-date ones show that EVs are a net benefit pollution wise even when run in areas powered by coal, and even when you consider the manufacturing of the batteries.

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles...s#.WgtIY8anGUk

Sure, you can find some articles that state otherwise but they always have a caveat where they didn't consider mining, drilling, or they are just someone's opinion.

And as the US displaces coal with natural gas and renewables, the difference is just going to increase further.
OK, I'll see your article, with a counter-article (from an arguably more reputable source):

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ssarily-clean/

...and raise you another article:

https://www.citylab.com/environment/...s-cars/397136/

The point is that many mistakenly consider EV's to be "zero-emissions" vehicles, and/or the answer to our transportation and energy problems. They are not. They are an alternative transportation solution, and are riding a wave of "popularity" right now based more on hope than on reality.

Sadly, in my opinion the only thing that will drive REAL solutions (if there are any) to our energy, pollution, and transportation problems are real crises, such as crazy high oil prices, imminent environmental disaster, or.....whatever. Cheap fuel and silly debates about whether man contributes to climate change are just "fueling" (pun intended) the status quo, and discouraging investment in real solutions.

(the above statements are merely my opinion of the current state of alternate solutions; these are not meant as political statements, and anybody who interprets them as such....shame on them).

Anyway, enough with the threadjack. Yes, cleaner burning outboards are better for our waterways than dirty-burning outboards. IMO.......
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 6104696 View Post
OK, I'll see your article, with a counter-article (from an arguably more reputable source):

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ssarily-clean/

...and raise you another article:

https://www.citylab.com/environment/...s-cars/397136/

The point is that many mistakenly consider EV's to be "zero-emissions" vehicles, and/or the answer to our transportation and energy problems. They are not. They are an alternative transportation solution, and are riding a wave of "popularity" right now based more on hope than on reality.

Sadly, in my opinion the only thing that will drive REAL solutions (if there are any) to our energy, pollution, and transportation problems are real crises, such as crazy high oil prices, imminent environmental disaster, or.....whatever. Cheap fuel and silly debates about whether man contributes to climate change are just "fueling" (pun intended) the status quo, and discouraging investment in real solutions.

(the above statements are merely my opinion of the current state of alternate solutions; these are not meant as political statements, and anybody who interprets them as such....shame on them).

Anyway, enough with the threadjack. Yes, cleaner burning outboards are better for our waterways than dirty-burning outboards. IMO.......
Neither of those articles you linked consider the full picture - the manufacturing, the mining, the batteries, the drilling/fracking, etc. And the city lab just comes off as biased. I can't quite put my finger on why. Also, it does call out the caveat (just search the page for "caveat") that I mention about not including the full lifecycle.

But, yeah, this is a threadjack. Sorry about that!
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:02 PM   #19
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When I can start digging clams out of my local bay like when I was a kid I'll be convinced the water quality is coming back.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:30 PM   #20
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Here is an article for those worried about pollution on ships:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ars-world.html

For the rest of us, just keep running the old two strokes, it doesn't even make a dent.
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