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Willis Boatworks Old School 22 - Hull #6 - Build Thread

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Willis Boatworks Old School 22 - Hull #6 - Build Thread

Old 02-12-2019, 04:26 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by 10buddy View Post
You were up at 3.00 this morning to come up with this. Ha Ha
thatís what AJ does. He keeps people stressed out and up all night.
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by williscustoms View Post
For the most part enjoyed building this beautiful boat for Shawn and Barry. From the start all partys knew and could clearly see I had a boat house slam full of boats being built. What i call a production line. Out of the group the first one to sign and throw down a deposit is head of the line and most of the time to first to be completed. It was explained the couple understood but they had just sold their flat bottom and had no boat and they just loved my 22'. So I took them on a seatrial on a previous build. They fell in love with everything about the boat. Of course wanted a few changes. Said no problem we are a custom shop. Quote was written up. No need to post to actual contract, but boat motor trailer and 200hp SUZUKI $64,000 Shawn laughed in my face said she would never. Said ok where can we cut cost. Eager to make them happy and knowing she would be only a mile from the shop to show off to other potential customers. I was willing to take a loss. I agreed to 54,000. Asked over and over what color did they want cause In the beginning I could have matched that color gel coat. But had to get started, so i went with white. Coosa stringers decks and foam was poured. Boat popped out mold beautiful by the way, which I did know and agreed to extend console height. Which I did do to their specs. Flip side that takes time, lots of time and money. These 22's do have a yacht quality finish on the outside. Not having a liner mold. The fastest and cheapest is go with a rough non skid finish on entire inside. Of course that got yacht quality every where. Seats where built and was told no way is their boat having those cheap ugly plastic hatchs. Once again I smiled and made no fuss and I built them the way she wanted. That's custom work. Time and money. If they had to try and do any of the work that's involved I'm sure they couldn't raise those hands and push those keys on the keyboard on this thread. The nail in the coffin was the weekend after the boat show, she was sitting on trailer shining like a angle. Here she comes mad as a rattlesnake cussed me up and down in front of another customer, my hole crew. Once again I smiled said sorry asked what can I do to make it right....

No communication I took boat to Morehead to be rigged, then Florence came for us apparently they didnt have insurance yet but with her in my building it would cover any damage thru my insurance. I smiled and said sure thing went my self hooked her up and made room inside for her. I agree 100% shouldn't have taken this long. But being number 5 in line, change orders and all around rude a spiteful think I pulled a rabbit out the hat for 54,000
So now your customer, who has been way, way, way beyond patient on this build thread is "all around rude a[nd] spiteful." Interesting.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:01 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by JoeDion36 View Post

thatís what AJ does. He keeps people stressed out and up all night.
Is this the Joe from Boston? If so please tell your story......Popcorn will be needed guys.

Mike
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:23 AM
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Hold the popcorn. We are lucky enough that the folks in wanchese have pride in their Jobs and respect the history of the third hull that Warren OíNeal built. They where able to turn the project around and move it in the right direction.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeDion36 View Post
Hold the popcorn. We are lucky enough that the folks in wanchese have pride in their Jobs and respect the history of the third hull that Warren OíNeal built. They where able to turn the project around and move it in the right direction.
Most don't know that he is the one that taught most if not all of the builders how to do it. Craig Blackwell does an awesome job and you are 100% about the pride in Wanchese. That's why we chose it!
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeDion36 View Post
Hold the popcorn. We are lucky enough that the folks in wanchese have pride in their Jobs and respect the history of the third hull that Warren O’Neal built. They where able to turn the project around and move it in the right direction.

Can you please give us an overview of what the deal was with your boat? Pictures would also be welcomed.

Mike
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:27 PM
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I perfer not to talk about it but it ended the same as everyone else Iíve talked to who tryís to do business with AJ.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:28 PM
  #128  
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Joe I fully understand. From he calls I have been getting may do not want to speak about their issues as they as they have told me they are in various stages of the legal system with Willis. Here is a basic overview of where these hulls are:

22 Foot Boat OP Boat - Issues on finishing and delivery.

Joe from Boston (In Thread) - Big issues with the boat. Boat went to Wanchese NC getting the majority of the work that was done by Willis removed and redone by Chris Blackwells shop there.

Done Digging Boat - More info will be posted after the owner sends me the documents and photos.

30 Foot Willis Customs:

Hull Number 1 - Boat has been in production for 4 years and not completed.

Hull Number 2 - Boat has not been completed and this is the boat listed in the court documents I posted.

Hull Number 3 - Boat was not completes and owner went to Willis and moved boat to Florida to get finished after major delays. Cost the owner a considerable amount of money after paying Willis. This is the boat that the court order has been issued to repossess.

Hull Number 4 - Boat was dropped when being removed from the mold (Approx.10 Feet). Owner is very hopeful that he will get the boat by the due date in April. I will put my money where my mouth is and if this boat is completed by the last day of April I will send a FREE Garmin 7612XSV as a gift to the owner at no charge.

Note: AJ is promising almost all of these owners their money that is owed to each of them. Time will tell if he holds up his end of the bargain. They have all been told various stories that have not panned out thus far.

Mike

Last edited by InternationalMarineMike; 02-12-2019 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:34 AM
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I can see how people get addicted to soap operas. This is great THT Winter drama. Sucks for those involved for sure.

I can totally see how it happens for the builder. They start work on Boat A with a deposit. Costs run over and there is no more money from the deposit. Up the creek, right? Nope. Boat B deposit was just received. I will just take a little from that deposit to finish Boat A. Get fully paid for Boat A and then be able to finish Boat B. But then Boat A does not get finished, Boat B gets started and the money runs out again. What to do? Oh, here is Boat C's deposit. All of a sudden the builder is caught in an unintentional Ponzi scheme he cannot get out of. Boat A purchaser is pissed his boat isn't ready. Boat B purchaser is pissed there isn't any progress with his boat. Boat C purchaser is none the wiser and thinks he will be getting his boat on time. Boat A purchaser has enough and files suit. There is nothing to get to make him whole so in addition to getting partially-finished Boat A, Boat A purchaser gets Boat B. Now boat B purchaser has to file suit. And on and on it goes until there is either bankruptcy, prison, useless restitution order, burning the place to the ground or any or all of the above.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
I can see how people get addicted to soap operas. This is great THT Winter drama. Sucks for those involved for sure.

I can totally see how it happens for the builder. They start work on Boat A with a deposit. Costs run over and there is no more money from the deposit. Up the creek, right? Nope. Boat B deposit was just received. I will just take a little from that deposit to finish Boat A. Get fully paid for Boat A and then be able to finish Boat B. But then Boat A does not get finished, Boat B gets started and the money runs out again. What to do? Oh, here is Boat C's deposit. All of a sudden the builder is caught in an unintentional Ponzi scheme he cannot get out of. Boat A purchaser is pissed his boat isn't ready. Boat B purchaser is pissed there isn't any progress with his boat. Boat C purchaser is none the wiser and thinks he will be getting his boat on time. Boat A purchaser has enough and files suit. There is nothing to get to make him whole so in addition to getting partially-finished Boat A, Boat A purchaser gets Boat B. Now boat B purchaser has to file suit. And on and on it goes until there is either bankruptcy, prison, useless restitution order, burning the place to the ground or any or all of the above.


Sums it up for sure.

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Old 02-13-2019, 10:15 AM
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I haven't seen him mentioned so I'm wondering if Alex Willis is involved with this mess. ?????

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Old 02-13-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
I can see how people get addicted to soap operas. This is great THT Winter drama. Sucks for those involved for sure.

I can totally see how it happens for the builder. They start work on Boat A with a deposit. Costs run over and there is no more money from the deposit. Up the creek, right? Nope. Boat B deposit was just received. I will just take a little from that deposit to finish Boat A. Get fully paid for Boat A and then be able to finish Boat B. But then Boat A does not get finished, Boat B gets started and the money runs out again. What to do? Oh, here is Boat C's deposit. All of a sudden the builder is caught in an unintentional Ponzi scheme he cannot get out of. Boat A purchaser is pissed his boat isn't ready. Boat B purchaser is pissed there isn't any progress with his boat. Boat C purchaser is none the wiser and thinks he will be getting his boat on time. Boat A purchaser has enough and files suit. There is nothing to get to make him whole so in addition to getting partially-finished Boat A, Boat A purchaser gets Boat B. Now boat B purchaser has to file suit. And on and on it goes until there is either bankruptcy, prison, useless restitution order, burning the place to the ground or any or all of the above.

I donít agree at all. If an established yacht builder (according to the website Willis was founded in 1918) cannot secure a line of credit from a bank. Nobody should be doing business with them.

We have heard a lot in these threads about Local pride, established families going back generations and handshake deals but a local bank wonít run this Willis guy a line of credit to run his venerated family business? tells you all you need to know.
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Last edited by Cpalms; 02-13-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpalms View Post



I donít agree at all. If an established yacht builder (according to the website Willis was founded in 1918) cannot secure a line of credit from a bank. Nobody should be doing business with them.

We have heard a lot in these threads about Wanchese pride, established families going back generations and handshake deals but a local bank wonít run this Willis guy a line of credit to run his venerated family business? tells you all you need to know.

Yup. Sure seems like it. Anyone seen the show Justified? Kinda reminds me of some characters from that show...
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MUHSFINK07 View Post
Yup. Sure seems like it. Anyone seen the show Justified? Kinda reminds me of some characters from that show...
I don't give them credit enough to be a Crowder, more like the Dewey Crowe or Coover Bennett.

Last edited by nccoaster; 02-13-2019 at 01:05 PM. Reason: sp.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpalms View Post



I donít agree at all. If an established yacht builder (according to the website Willis was founded in 1918) cannot secure a line of credit from a bank. Nobody should be doing business with them.

We have heard a lot in these threads about Local pride, established families going back generations and handshake deals but a local bank wonít run this Willis guy a line of credit to run his venerated family business? tells you all you need to know.
After the 2008 recession and even somewhat before that with the luxury tax, if you want to hear laughter, go to the bank with a boatbuilder and ask for a line of credit! Unless you've got a lot of collateral to put up there isn't a bank in NC that would even remotely consider it. Too many banks (and suppliers) have been burned over those events. I've never built a boat that was financed but have spoken to many other builders who lamented they've lost many prospective customers who've tried to secure financing locally for a newbuild and were flat out refused. Didn't matter what their credit situation was, the banks just weren't interested in financing a boat.
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Old 02-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by williscustoms View Post
I pulled a rabbit out the hat
Are there any finished rabbits out there? This thread makes it seem like they are all still in their hats.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
I can see how people get addicted to soap operas. This is great THT Winter drama. Sucks for those involved for sure.

I can totally see how it happens for the builder. They start work on Boat A with a deposit. Costs run over and there is no more money from the deposit. Up the creek, right? Nope. Boat B deposit was just received. I will just take a little from that deposit to finish Boat A. Get fully paid for Boat A and then be able to finish Boat B. But then Boat A does not get finished, Boat B gets started and the money runs out again. What to do? Oh, here is Boat C's deposit. All of a sudden the builder is caught in an unintentional Ponzi scheme he cannot get out of. Boat A purchaser is pissed his boat isn't ready. Boat B purchaser is pissed there isn't any progress with his boat. Boat C purchaser is none the wiser and thinks he will be getting his boat on time. Boat A purchaser has enough and files suit. There is nothing to get to make him whole so in addition to getting partially-finished Boat A, Boat A purchaser gets Boat B. Now boat B purchaser has to file suit. And on and on it goes until there is either bankruptcy, prison, useless restitution order, burning the place to the ground or any or all of the above.
This is Business 101. I've seen it happen to aircraft manufacturers as well. The day you take fiscal resources from one customer and apply them to another's project the fate is certain. It's just a matter of how long.

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Old 02-13-2019, 06:14 PM
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Or another way to put it. There are people who are true craftsmen. There are people who are good businessmen. Tough to be both.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:29 PM
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Most ponzi schemes wind up collapsing.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bills106 View Post
After the 2008 recession and even somewhat before that with the luxury tax, if you want to hear laughter, go to the bank with a boatbuilder and ask for a line of credit! Unless you've got a lot of collateral to put up there isn't a bank in NC that would even remotely consider it. Too many banks (and suppliers) have been burned over those events. I've never built a boat that was financed but have spoken to many other builders who lamented they've lost many prospective customers who've tried to secure financing locally for a newbuild and were flat out refused. Didn't matter what their credit situation was, the banks just weren't interested in financing a boat.
Who said banks should loan anybody anything unsecured for a boat?

Your reasoning is precisely why you go to an established builder like Willis (est. 1918). He has the deepest possible family roots and ties to the community. They should have "collateral". They should have assets to borrow against to run their business, they SHOULD be able to get financing. They did not just hang a shingle and set up shop. This is what makes this guy such a creep.

So what your telling me is when Billy Freeman, who just build an enormous new facility, paid cash for the facility or he went to the the bank? How did Sea Vee's build their new factory? If John Bayliss goes to his local Bank of America Branch (HQ'd in NC), they won't extend him a line of credit? The banker would chase him down the street to get his business.

The here and now with the economy is that it is still rolling along. It may be a cheap rate fueled bubble, it certainly may end soon but right now banks are open for business. Boat buyers and boat builders are borrowing right and left. Guess how many financed boats will be sold this weekend at the Miami Boat show? I'll answer for you - a Shitload.

2008 is unfortunately a distant memory for many. This overheated economy will likely end badly but it's not over yet.
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