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2014 F-300s burning/making oil.

Old 11-10-2017, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Trydent View Post
We had a customer who reported a similar problem with his twin F300's making oil. We downloaded the ECU's and our techs and Yamaha reviewed all of the engine data. 99% of the hours were at 4,000 rpms or below because he is a professional pilot was very focused on fuel consumption.

Yamaha replied that the engines were designed to be run hard and he needed to run the shit out of them regularly to get the rings to seat properly. So, the customer changed his oil and regularly started running his engines from 5000 rpm to WOT on each trip and no more problems.


If that is the case, why doesn't Yamaha include that language in the owner's manual?
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff7y28 View Post
If that is the case, why doesn't Yamaha include that language in the owner's manual?
Because 99% of F300 owner's won't be having the problem in the first place?

Because 99% of F300 owner's probably don't read their owner's manual?
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:23 AM
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Yamaha replied that the engines were designed to be run hard and he needed to run the shit out of them regularly to get the rings to seat properly. So, the customer changed his oil and regularly started running his engines from 5000 rpm to WOT on each trip and no more problems.
damn but running 45-55 mph or more @ 5K everywhere you go isn't feasible more times than not.
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Paisito View Post
damn but running 45-55 mph or more @ 5K everywhere you go isn't feasible more times than not.
^^^
I only have 33 hours on mine but it appears it will be troublesome. Had over a quart of diluted oil at 7 hours so I changed it.. Well over a quart at the 20 hour service as well. Propped to run 5,800 - 6,000 depending on load. I was able to run it like I stole it during the last 8 hours of break-in by doing it in the Pamlico River. Now that it is at the coast, I have few opportunities to run WOT or even 5K for an extended period. I spend more hours trolling than running. That is why I have a center console fishing boat and not a ski boat. I shouldn't have to spend the time and money running the shit out of my boat in an attempt to keep it from self-destructing. The dealer is saying, let's keep an eye on it. I am already starting to miss the ox66.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by unleashed View Post
^^^
I only have 33 hours on mine but it appears it will be troublesome. Had over a quart of diluted oil at 7 hours so I changed it.. Well over a quart at the 20 hour service as well. Propped to run 5,800 - 6,000 depending on load. I was able to run it like I stole it during the last 8 hours of break-in by doing it in the Pamlico River. Now that it is at the coast, I have few opportunities to run WOT or even 5K for an extended period. I spend more hours trolling than running. That is why I have a center console fishing boat and not a ski boat. I shouldn't have to spend the time and money running the shit out of my boat in an attempt to keep it from self-destructing. The dealer is saying, let's keep an eye on it. I am already starting to miss the ox66.
Wow that really sucks, was this a repower from ox66 or a new boat?
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by planerboard View Post
Wow that really sucks, was this a repower from ox66 or a new boat?
New boat.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:53 AM
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Yeah, a lot more than 1% of yamaha 4 strokes having this problem. IMHO, it’s about time one of these hungry class action lawyers get to work. We should be receiving compensation for extra cost of more frequently required oil changes, oil analysis, and more than likely shorten longegivty of these engines.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:50 AM
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I've read through this and many other "making oil" threads. I'll cut to the chase and give you the quick answer. Fuel added to the oil makes the oil quantity increase. Your fuel injectors are at fault. Get them cleaned and flowed. You will be provided with an analysis chart.




http://brucatosvs.com/


Now I'll give you the long answer.
Most of these so called experts in the marine, and automotive industries, are parts changers and not systems troubleshooters. I'll leave it at that. The problem with the Yamaha f300 and several makes models is not the fuel, the additives, the time of day or night or some mystical power that follows you around. It's simply a fuel delivery issue that's not readable from the scan of the ecu. The coil side of the injector is working and that's what the ecu sees, but the fuel side of the injector is invisible to the ecu. It can be interpreted by looking at other sensors in a closed loop system but that takes knowledge and time to troubleshoot. Most don't want to take the time. It's not metering the fuel correctly at lower settings and is flooding the cylinder or cylinders with fuel. Hence the carbon stuck rings, increased oil quantity, poor performance at low and mid range that only clears up at wot. I've troubleshot this issue and only one time was it not an injector itself but a faulty injector timing program in the ecu. On any fuel injected engine for a boat, car, or your lawn mower, always verify proper fuel flow of all the injectors and get the calibration report before and after. Each injector is it's own little fuel supply and must be matched to all others within a tolerance. I've seen brand new fuel injectors so far apart in flow numbers that they could not be recalibrated as a matched set. Of course the manufacturer denies, denies, denies, but cold hard facts and calibration reports don't lie. And eventually they pony up a set. Good luck


Lets bring this home to something most performance engine folks can relate to. You build an engine for a vehicle. Bore the block .020 over, forged pistons and crank, balanced everything, ported, polished, flowed heads, with larger valves. $20k or more into the build with larger injectors, maybe add some pressure to it. You plan on spinning it to 9000 rpm. Larger injectors, cold air intakes, maybe an intercooler or two if you boost it. It can get pretty technical. The engine gets tuned on a dyno, be it a engine dyno or a chassis dyno if installed the vehicle. You have a "tuner" set your timing advance, fuel curve, monitor your air/fuel with a wide band and good tuners are expensive too. All this and more is set thru a program that alters the settings in the ecu to obtain the highest performance from the power plant. Most of it is based on fuel flow and ignition timing. You do this so you can have a bad ass car to drive in one form or another and if you blow the engine or it takes a dump while out sporting around you pull over and get a tow.


Now lets talk boats, you plop 20k or more down on a marine engine. Same concept as what I described above but built by a major manufacturer which you believe to be the best in the business. Most folks never have a problem and the motor performs as it should. Then some don't. That engine is designed to turn and operate within a given rpm range as designed by the engine builders at Yamaha. It should be able to turn at idle rpm or whatever the max rpm it's rated for all day long without excuse. . A boating forum can offer advice and food for thought but I wouldn't base my troubleshooting on "hold it wide open till it clears up" advice. Think about it. That's bullchit advice from anyone and I doubt that Yamaha would give such advice. The engine has a problem. Get qualified expert advice before you stand behind the throttle in the open sea for hours waiting for it to "clear up".
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by unleashed View Post
New boat.
Too bad sorry to hear. You know I would be nice if manufacturers offered more brands when it comes to power options.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:07 PM
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To me it sounds like a bunch of BS from the house of Yamaha. Why is it then, that you don't have these problems with high performance automotive engines making oil or burning oil? Can you imagine Toyota, Nissan or Honda telling their automotive customers that they must run their engines at those elevated RPMs in order for the engines to break in? Their automotive engines are though to be nearly maintenance free, other than oil changes and tune ups.
If that is truly the case, then perhaps Yamaha needs to re-visit their own production methods to determine why their engines in some cases are so hard to break in. To me it sounds like something relating to the final finish quality of the cylinder walls, the piston rings, or clearances, but there seems to be no other more basic reason why a marine engine, designed as a marine engine, should need break ins as they describe. Either that, or have the dealers break them in before they are sold, (yeah right like that would actually happen). It just does not make sense.

Even cheap to buy, stone age tech GM marine engines, don't do that, they need nothing special in break in other than decent oil. The concerns with zinc etc are past now because they all come with roller cams, that are not prone to oil related wear.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Surfjeepzx View Post
I've read through this and many other "making oil" threads. I'll cut to the chase and give you the quick answer. Fuel added to the oil makes the oil quantity increase. Your fuel injectors are at fault. Get them cleaned and flowed. You will be provided with an analysis chart.




http://brucatosvs.com/
I am pretty sure everyone knows it is fuel dilution.
Why would new fuel injectors need cleaning?
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:12 PM
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Go back up and read my extended reply. I added more info.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Surfjeepzx View Post
I've read through this and many other "making oil" threads. I'll cut to the chase and give you the quick answer. Fuel added to the oil makes the oil quantity increase. Your fuel injectors are at fault. Get them cleaned and flowed. You will be provided with an analysis chart.




http://brucatosvs.com/


Now I'll give you the long answer.
Most of these so called experts in the marine, and automotive industries, are parts changers and not systems troubleshooters. I'll leave it at that. The problem with the Yamaha f300 and several makes models is not the fuel, the additives, the time of day or night or some mystical power that follows you around. It's simply a fuel delivery issue that's not readable from the scan of the ecu. The coil side of the injector is working but the fuel side of the injector is not. It's not metering the fuel correctly at lower settings and is flooding the cylinder or cylinders with fuel. Hence the carbon stuck rings increased oil quantity. Poor performance at low and mid range that only clears up at wot. I've troubleshot this issue and only one time was it not the injector itself but a faulty injector timing program in the ecu. On any fuel injected engine for a boat, car, or your lawn mower, always verify proper fuel flow of all the injectors and get the calibration report before and after. I've seen brand new fuel injectors so far apart in flow numbers that they could not be recalibrated. Of course the manufacturer denies denies denies, but cold hard facts don't lie. And eventually they pony up a set. Good luck
this makes sense of course, but then why are the dealers not looking at this and having the injectors flow tested to solve the problem in some kind of reasonable manner? I have owned fuel injected vehicles since the late 80s, and the oldest one we still own (1998 Jeep 4.0 six) we have never had to have the injectors even cleaned! It runs pretty much as it always had at nearly 20 years old and 176,000 miles. So what's up with Yamaha's service practices, there should be a TSB on this like there is for many other things.
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:28 PM
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Find a boat dealer with an injector cleaning and calibration set up in house, you wont. . Other than a specialized service repair facility or an engine builder they don't want to mess with it. It's easier to keep throwing parts at it until you fix it or it runs out of warranty and they ignore you. There's plenty of sheeple out there that will just keep on scooping up the poop.


You're Jeep is not designed to run at 6500 rpm for extended times if at all. Therefore the build tolerances of the engine and the fuel/air ratio are very liberal lets say. If you removed those injectors and had them flowed I'll bet you'd see a wide variation in flow rates but the Jeep engine will accept the difference and keep on running.
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:35 PM
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Auto engines have an oxygen sensor feedback system to correct for overly lean or rich fuel mixtures (to a certain extent) by varying injector pulse whereas afaik most outboard engines do not, which could account for the making oil issue as the outboard computer has no way to do a final check of the combustion process, it can just assume everything is correct according to pre determined parameters ?
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Old 11-11-2017, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff7y28 View Post
If that is the case, why doesn't Yamaha include that language in the owner's manual?

In the manual Yamaha states to change oil more frequently than 100 hours if trolling regularly. They know its a problem and fail to resolve it. In my opinion, Yamaha should at least offer warranty extensions on the motors that are propped correctly and still make oil.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Surfjeepzx View Post
Go back up and read my extended reply. I added more info.
I hope it is this simple. I cannot help but think that a fuel injector problem that would dump over a quart of fuel in a crankcase in 7 hours of running time would create some performance issue. The motor cranks, idles, and runs flawlessly.
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:00 PM
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One of my 300's made oil.

My uncle had a 19 bayboat with a 150 Yamaha. Had tons of carbon build up because he trolled to much.

Had to run it like he stole it for a while before it ran like it was suppose to.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:19 AM
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I tend to do a lot of low rpm cruising and have been getting my oil analyzed once I started noticing the making oil issue in my 2015 F175. . Had to start using ring free. Analysis seems to show the problem has pretty much gone away. 570 hrs total, about to do a fourth analysis at 75hr interval this time,, fingers crossed. As far as I can tell ring free is pretty much a requirement for these engines to prevent the carbon build up unless you are a bass fisherman running wide open everywhere.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:48 AM
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I've been running mine harder than I ever did. Still having an issue. My boat is not just for going off shore we use it to cruise the river and just enjoy the boat. Where I live there is no place in the river you can run over 30 mph without FWC writing you a ticket and some places it a no wake zone for over an hour. The issue is there is a problem and I know there are a lot of people who don't have an issue or don't realize there is something wrong. Hopefully yamaha will fix it.
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