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Compounding/Polising Issues - Calling all Detailing Experts

Old 04-24-2017, 08:40 AM
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Default Compounding/Polising Issues - Calling all Detailing Experts

I just purchased an Carver 41 CMY. The marina is anxious to launch it on me but before they do I want to polish the hull while it's out of the water. In the interest of saving time I opted to go with Meguiar's M67 One Step Compound, which claims to compound, polish and protect in one application. I've used their Ultimate Compound on my vehicles with great results so I was feeling good about it.

Back to reality, yesterday I used the product with my Flex 3401 Dual Action Polisher with Lake Country Orange pad. I only have light to medium oxidation and this product was stubborn as hell to work with.

It seem to go on ok and would remove oxidization, stains, scuffs and scratches, but would dry to a thick haze and did not want to come off. I used distilled water in a spray bottle, with the polisher in an attempt to thin out the material but it was taking forever. Results from finished section was good, but If it takes this long I would have been better doing all 3 steps.

A few things I'm wondering may be the issue?

1. Am I using the right pad? Should I use Yellow or Purple
2. I'm running at 4000 RPM, is this too high?
3. Is it possible the bottle I got has turned bad? Seemed to squeeze out little thick?

Thanks in advance
Old 04-24-2017, 09:05 AM
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Disclaimer: I obviously work for a company that makes a different detailing product, but I'm happy to try and help.

1. Consider stepping up to purple
2. Your machine is measured in OPM, not RPM. That speed is fine.
3. Probably not, explanation below.

I understand the time investment can be an issue, but it's better to do the job right better than quick. Even medium oxidation is usually a bit much for a one step cleaner wax. You'll want to consider a true compound followed by a wax. You'll spend less time working each individual area because your cutting the oxidation away faster.

I doubt your product went bad, separation is usually a symptom of bad product. As far as the machine and pad, you may want to step up to the Purple. Won't knock the Flex, it's a great machine. Anyways, you may consider changing your chemical.

Buff Magic is a variable grit compound. In short, it starts aggressive and finishes as a very fine polish, so your boat will look perfect in one step. Follow that up with Pro Polish. It's a wax with no aggregate at all, don't let the name throw you off. It contains no talc powder and goes on / comes off fast. Protection should be the same as other traditional waxes. I hope this helps, good luck. Feel free to bounce some more technical stuff off me, related to my product or not.
Old 04-24-2017, 09:47 AM
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I'm a bit green as well and use Meguiars pads and a HFT dual action.

On my boat, I used Meguiars 205, followed by 105, then wax and had the same issue with the 205. Couple things I found that were causing me problems.

1. Working in the moist evenings, the polish took forever to dry. This caused buildup on the pad and a thick haze on the boat.

2. I was putting too much compound on the pad resulting an even thicker haze haze.

3. I was trying to move too fast so I was leaving wet compound on the surface then waiting for it to dry.

So I only put a small amount of compound on the wheel, maybe 1/8" diameter bead from center to outside. Then quickly spread that compound over about a 2' square area. Then sloooooooooooowly work from left to right, and top to bottom in overlapping passes. Push hard enough on the buffer that the wheel turns slowly. When you are done, there should just be a little dust left to wipe clean. If your pad starts to get saturated, use a rag to remove excess compound from the wheel. Another pass of compound worked to remove the stuck on stuff.

I found that boats are a bit more tricky than cars. The gel-coat tends to pull the moisture out of the compound. Unfortunately, my experience is that a DA is not your friend if you are in a hurry. The pros use rotarys for speed.
Old 04-24-2017, 10:18 AM
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Here you go
Old 04-24-2017, 10:33 AM
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Yeah, I'm a 3M products fan. Imperial finishing compound and a synthetic polymer sealer-wax. I still use wool wheels. My detailing days started in the 70's. LOL.
Old 04-24-2017, 10:45 AM
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Having gone through some of the detailing forms I think I may be working too large of an area and the product is drying. I understand you need to work an area and remove the product with a buffing cloth before it dries. I was buffing until it was dry, thinking it would just breakdown and dust away?

I've heard of Buff Magic before, but I'm in Canada and haven't seen it in stores here?
Old 04-24-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by love2speed View Post
Having gone through some of the detailing forms I think I may be working too large of an area and the product is drying. I understand you need to work an area and remove the product with a buffing cloth before it dries. I was buffing until it was dry, thinking it would just breakdown and dust away?

I've heard of Buff Magic before, but I'm in Canada and haven't seen it in stores here?
You can always buy online at Shurhold.com or other online retailers. It sounds like you had a eureka moment with the chemical you were working with. Yup, work it until the product has turned into a shiny haze then buff off with a clean microfiber towel. You'll always need to remove excess product after compounding/waxing, etc
Old 04-24-2017, 05:20 PM
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3M Fiberglass Restorer is a great product that I have had very good success with. Cuts fast, then breaks down to leave a high gloss shine. I use a simple wool bonnet.

But it sounds very much like the product that Capt Shurhold describes, so which ever one you can get locally might be the one to go with.
Old 04-24-2017, 05:21 PM
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buff magic is great stuff...I think I've tried them all but it is easy to use and gives awesome results. I like using it with a wool pad and a heavy duty rotary buffer. It's a workout but you can move fairly quickly.

I like to finish it off with collinite fleet wax for a great shine that lasts for a full year.
Old 04-24-2017, 05:52 PM
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Use a rotary buffer with wool pad or yellow foam cutting pad.

The flex is nice for finish and light duty, but really no match for gelcoat oxidation.
Old 04-25-2017, 07:42 AM
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I used 3M restorer wax in the past as well, I found that tough to remove so that's why I tried own's Meguiar's this time. 3M own Meguiar's, so I suspect its the exact same product..different bottle.

In response to CaptSam, I talked to Meguiar's "detail technician" and he said I'm not supposed to run the product dry with the buffer. Rather I'm to stop just before it dries and wipe with a buffing cloth? This is different then how I've used other stuff.

Anyway, I will try a combination of moving to a purple or yellow pad, slowing down the speed, work a smaller area and wipe before the product dries and hope this gets better.

I'll report back on my progress, possible with pics.

Thanks again gang!
Old 04-25-2017, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sxracer View Post
Use a rotary buffer with wool pad or yellow foam cutting pad.

The flex is nice for finish and light duty, but really no match for gelcoat oxidation.
exactly

DA machines for wax maybe, not to polish gelcoat

wool pads, compound, rotary machine

I just tried the shurhold rotary buffer, has a nice long 20' cord, and feels pretty heavy duty. Its a little heavier than a makita but the shurhold has a higher amp motor and is about $70 cheaper than a makita

its def worth it over a cheap harbor freight piece of junk
Old 04-25-2017, 08:07 AM
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I'd suggest you get a rotary and the proper chemical.
Old 04-25-2017, 08:12 AM
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This stuff produces amazing results.

https://www.amazon.com/Smoove-Pro-Cu...eywords=smoove

You will need to apply your favorite sealant after your done.
Old 04-25-2017, 08:25 AM
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I purchased my boat last fall, the gelcoat is like chalk! Ran out of time to do the hull in heated storage, finally paid someone to do the hull. It was expensive, more than it should have cost, but man it looks good! I'm justifying the high cost because it is so oxidized, requiring more work and more know-how. Plus I'm juggling two careers and easy to justify thousands of $s if I can spend more days earning.

Now the top still needs to be done, the quote was breathtaking expensive. I'm debating how much damage I could do trying this myself. There isn't much I won't tackle mechanically, and I've compounded and waxed boats by hand my youth. Wife's dad gave us his Dewalt rotary buffer, pads, and a bucket of compounds and waxes. I like working on stuff like this, don't mind spending nice days buffing my new toy instead of anchored at the beach.

So my question is: how easy would it be to damage my gelcoat, while trying to bring it back from chalk to gloss? Maybe it would be better to leave this to a pro?
Old 04-25-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 30West View Post
I purchased my boat last fall, the gelcoat is like chalk! Ran out of time to do the hull in heated storage, finally paid someone to do the hull. It was expensive, more than it should have cost, but man it looks good! I'm justifying the high cost because it is so oxidized, requiring more work and more know-how. Plus I'm juggling two careers and easy to justify thousands of $s if I can spend more days earning.

Now the top still needs to be done, the quote was breathtaking expensive. I'm debating how much damage I could do trying this myself. There isn't much I won't tackle mechanically, and I've compounded and waxed boats by hand my youth. Wife's dad gave us his Dewalt rotary buffer, pads, and a bucket of compounds and waxes. I like working on stuff like this, don't mind spending nice days buffing my new toy instead of anchored at the beach.

So my question is: how easy would it be to damage my gelcoat, while trying to bring it back from chalk to gloss? Maybe it would be better to leave this to a pro?

More than it should have cost? Do you mind telling us what you paid for the hull sides? If its badly oxidized, hit it with some 1000 grit sand paper, maybe up to 1500 grit. I like to use Farecla products to finish. Rapid cut 300 and rapid cut 500 have given me great results. Their UV wax is also a great product.
Old 04-25-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DirtBusters View Post
More than it should have cost? Do you mind telling us what you paid for the hull sides? If its badly oxidized, hit it with some 1000 grit sand paper, maybe up to 1500 grit. I like to use Farecla products to finish. Rapid cut 300 and rapid cut 500 have given me great results. Their UV wax is also a great product.
$2,250. I could have found people who would have done it for half that, but I wasn't as confident in them not doing some damage. Plus the marina needed their cut, the owner has been full of smiles since I paid them to paint and polish the hull. I'm very much a DIY guy otherwise.

When you start talking sandpaper I see dollar signs, like double the work. 1000 and higher grit loads up just taking it out of the package, I'd go through a lot of it. I think this is still buffable, if a person knows what they are doing.

Marina quoted $3k to buff and wax the top, yike. But I can take home more than that in an extra weekend trip to Europe, much more for a trip to the Far East, and pros are going to do it right. Decisions, decisions...
Old 04-25-2017, 09:50 AM
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I won't comment on the price of buffing out your boat, that's up for you, the market, and your detailer to decide what's fair/right. I will say that you shouldn't be as worried about damaging the gelcoat if you try the DIY route. Think of gelcoat as incredibly thick, soft paint. It's easy to work with and forgiving of mistakes. As long as you don't hold your machine in the same spot for north of 30 seconds, you shouldn't really damage the boat.

Wet Sanding is a great first step on heavily oxidized boat because it removes all the dead gelcoat that would otherwise clog up the pad. Shurhold doesn't offer anything to support wet sanding, but it's something you should consider if you go the DIY route.
Old 04-25-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by love2speed View Post
I used 3M restorer wax in the past as well, I found that tough to remove so that's why I tried own's Meguiar's this time. 3M own Meguiar's, so I suspect its the exact same product..different bottle.

In response to CaptSam, I talked to Meguiar's "detail technician" and he said I'm not supposed to run the product dry with the buffer. Rather I'm to stop just before it dries and wipe with a buffing cloth? This is different then how I've used other stuff.

Anyway, I will try a combination of moving to a purple or yellow pad, slowing down the speed, work a smaller area and wipe before the product dries and hope this gets better.

I'll report back on my progress, possible with pics.

Thanks again gang!
The Meguiars guy didn't steer you wrong. You should buff any compound/polish etc to a fine haze and then buff off the excess with a microfiber towel.
Old 06-07-2017, 10:02 AM
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Just wanted to update everyone on my progress. I gave up on Meguires, this is not good for oxidization although it claims to be heavy duty compound, its really not.

I started using Aqubuff 2000, based on my marina's fiberglass repair and buffing guy. also I ditched the foam pads and moved to wool.

Results are great, but still very slow. I suspect the problem is with my Flex 3401, forced dual action rotation buffer. I may need to bite the bullet and get a rotary machine.

What I've come to realize is that all my knowledge buffing cars and boats (with no oxidization) is that when you have heavy oxidization...foam pads, DA polishers and off the shelf products will not produce the professional results your typically expecting.

Last edited by love2speed; 10-25-2017 at 08:50 AM.

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