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Old 04-17-2017, 04:35 AM   #1
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Default Battery issue- need some guidance

Sometime you need to experience a bad situations to learn from them

Old Batteries- (3) Interstate between 24 to 30 months old

Back story- 4 weeks ago took boat out, no problems. 1 week later my dad decided to check the (3) batteries water level's and found that 2 were low and 1 just needed a topping off.

Saturday I go to trim the engines up and they bounce a little to set the lock bar. SIGN SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THIS. Got to the ramp and go to trim them up in the water and NOTHING. Pull the boat out and run down the street to New Smyrna Marina. They check all 3 batteries and all of them are below 60 CCA and register as "Not able to hold charge" on his reader.

I install 3 new "Brute Force" which is the battery they carry. In the process the center battery which has 3 large gauge red wires on the terminal bolt one of the red wire crimps comes loose. Day getting worse. I'm able to push it on and it holds. This will get fixed.

Any ideas were the problem may occur.
I don't remember positively if the 2 battery switches were in the off position. My dad swears he didn't touch them. Nothing on the switch panel was on.

Could that loose wire be an issue- causing a draw down if the switches are off?

Dad feels it is highly unlikely all 3 batteries would die at the same time.

Battery charger lights were all green. Forget the make.

Any ideas on a possible cause?

Wouldn't the battery switches cut all power off to everything.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:31 AM   #2
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It's hard to diagnose without pics or a diagram. What size are the three big wires on the one battery? Are they cables are accessory wires?
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:41 AM   #3
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I usually get told to charge a battery before the tester can determine if it's bad or not. It's quite possible you got sold batteries you didn't need.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:09 AM   #4
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Definitely need some kind of diagram. If those three batteries were in parallel an the wire that was loose was from the charger, they could have all been dead like Texas17 suggests. Could that loose wire have been the one from the charger?

It is pretty hard to test a battery if it is not fully charged. If the three batteries were in parallel then one bad battery could discharge the others.

Did you recharge the batteries after you topped them off? That should definitely happen, as putting water in the battery dilutes the acid and the battery needs to be recharged to get the acid back to where it needs to be.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:23 AM   #5
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X2 on ALWAYS charging after filling with water .If you don't and you add enough water you will damage them .if one shorted out a cell and they are in parallel it will discharge the others .

p.s. the new computerized battery testers are reading internal resistance to determine health . State of charge is not important .
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatta life View Post
p.s. the new computerized battery testers are reading internal resistance to determine health . State of charge is not important .
The stores might tell you that, but it is not quite true.

The battery does not have to have a FULL charge, but it has to have a reasonable charge. The electrolyte is part of the circuit and the conductivity of the electrolyte factors into the internal resistance. If the battery is significantly discharged, the resistance in the electrolyte will make the battery "look" bad when indeed it is just discharged.

"State-of-charge also plays an important role, and the tester must distinguish between low charge and low capacity. Both conditions lower battery performance and are difficult to identify. Most battery testers work down to 70 percent SoC; Spectro™ goes down to 60 percent."

(link:http://www.batteryuniversity.com/lea...acid_batteries )
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lightning View Post
Sometime you need to experience a bad situations to learn from them

Old Batteries- (3) Interstate between 24 to 30 months old

Back story- 4 weeks ago took boat out, no problems. 1 week later my dad decided to check the (3) batteries water level's and found that 2 were low and 1 just needed a topping off.

Saturday I go to trim the engines up and they bounce a little to set the lock bar. SIGN SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THIS. Got to the ramp and go to trim them up in the water and NOTHING. Pull the boat out and run down the street to New Smyrna Marina. They check all 3 batteries and all of them are below 60 CCA and register as "Not able to hold charge" on his reader.

I install 3 new "Brute Force" which is the battery they carry. In the process the center battery which has 3 large gauge red wires on the terminal bolt one of the red wire crimps comes loose. Day getting worse. I'm able to push it on and it holds. This will get fixed.

Any ideas were the problem may occur.
I don't remember positively if the 2 battery switches were in the off position. My dad swears he didn't touch them. Nothing on the switch panel was on.

Could that loose wire be an issue- causing a draw down if the switches are off?

Dad feels it is highly unlikely all 3 batteries would die at the same time.

Battery charger lights were all green. Forget the make.

Any ideas on a possible cause?

Wouldn't the battery switches cut all power off to everything.
Deep cycle or starting batteries?
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:24 AM   #8
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To specifically address these questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lightning View Post
Could that loose wire be an issue- causing a draw down if the switches are off?
Probably wouldn't create a draw, but might not have been charging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lightning View Post
Dad feels it is highly unlikely all 3 batteries would die at the same time.
I agree with Dad. They could all have been discharged at the same time, but not likely all "just went bad" at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lightning View Post
Wouldn't the battery switches cut all power off to everything.
Should, but depends on how it is wired. Even with a switch though, if the three batteries are in parallel, then one cell or one bad battery could draw down all three.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:32 AM   #9
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If they are wired in parallel I'm starting to lean towards one bad battery draining the good ones.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #10
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Fishman- I believe 4 gauge (about) 1/2" thickness, cables

Texas- charger was connected, Pro Mariner Prosport 3 bank

KM- I believe they are in parallel
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:34 AM   #11
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The wiring doesn't seem right. 2 engines, 3 batteries wired in parallel. You need a separate battery for each engine. The third is prob supposed to be your house battery. That 3 bank charger has leads for each battery. They should go directly to each battery independent of each other. When the batteries are wired in parallel they are technically 1 bank. If you could draw out a diagram we can figure it out. Right now we are just making educated guesses based on a few clues.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:52 AM   #12
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Another thing is, if they are wired in parallel and both engines use the same bank of batteries to crank and operate, that means that each engine's charging system in connected to the other via the batteries.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lightning View Post

Could that loose wire be an issue- causing a draw down if the switches are off?

No but a loose wire will prevent the battery from charging properly while in use and thus cause a problem the next time you need them for starting. Been there done that.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:05 PM   #14
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If your charger boiled the water off the batts I'd suspect they were damaged from that to start with. High resistance a cable (loose) will cause heat and make your charger cook the batteries too. If the cable end came off you might see a lot of resistance in the connection even after tightening due to corrosion on the cable.

Do you leave the boat on the charger all the time? If so you should make it a habit to top off the water more often.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:37 PM   #15
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Yes on the charger but it has a conditioner. Thinking of maybe unplugging very couple days or so.
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by km1125 View Post
The stores might tell you that, but it is not quite true.

The battery does not have to have a FULL charge, but it has to have a reasonable charge. The electrolyte is part of the circuit and the conductivity of the electrolyte factors into the internal resistance. If the battery is significantly discharged, the resistance in the electrolyte will make the battery "look" bad when indeed it is just discharged.

"State-of-charge also plays an important role, and the tester must distinguish between low charge and low capacity. Both conditions lower battery performance and are difficult to identify. Most battery testers work down to 70 percent SoC; Spectro™ goes down to 60 percent."

(link:http://www.batteryuniversity.com/lea...acid_batteries )
after reading that I decided to test it out . I don't use flooded batteries any more . only use agm , gel and lithium . ( besides boats I build custom gem electric cars )

so I took one of our older gel batteries and heavily discharged it down to 10.8v . we have a computerized battery checker so I hooked it up and it read a very high resistance of 43.32m ohms .this would be a bad battery . done.

Then charged it to 12.85v and retested , 11.50m ohms . huge difference . @ this level this would show an older battery but still very usable .

so extreme soc does make a big difference . thanks for posting that .

p.s. always have tested batteries at full or close to full charge and never saw this difference.
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