Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > The Boating Forum
Reload this Page >

Evinrude e-tec G2 dollar sense challenge

Notices
The Boating Forum

Evinrude e-tec G2 dollar sense challenge

Old 07-21-2016, 04:54 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 1,618
Received 166 Likes on 96 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by manitunc View Post
For those claiming its just marketing hype, how would you have set up the test differently. Same boat, same load, only difference being the engines. You can speculate all you want that the Yamaha boat was driven with tabs down, poorly propped or whatever, but that is just speculation and would have been applied against the G2 if Yamaha had won.
How would I have set the test up? Either A) I would have had Yamaha come in and setup and run there own boat or B) let a completely independent company like Boat test run the entire test instead of just being an observer.
Old 07-21-2016, 04:58 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 1,618
Received 166 Likes on 96 Posts
Default

I do have a dog in the fight. I wont lie and act like I am unbiased. I brought two of these two the marina a while ago.

Old 07-21-2016, 05:39 AM
  #43  
pcr
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sw fla
Posts: 1,326
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Wonder if Yamaha will respond? Why not?
I would like them to challenge this.
Maybe do the same boats and engine set up with both outboard company's setting them up.
Old 07-21-2016, 05:57 AM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: OBX
Posts: 2,841
Received 184 Likes on 121 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by redseacraft View Post
1.13 mpg in smooth seas is like 28GPH at 30 mph. The manufactures website shoes a burn of 19gph at 30 on that same boat. Fishy!!!! I'm not buying it.
Do you think they ran 30? was it smooth seas? No, they ran faster and it was a bit choppy. Look at the mpg graphs for the g2 and you see a giant plateau so you get the same mpg at 25 as you do at 40. This was a test where the Yamaha had to keep up with the G2. It couldn't match the fuel burn at the same speeds. That isn't saying that if you let the Yamaha boat slow down for best mpg that it won't make it to KW, I bet it will, just 30+ minutes later.

Just like all of these Evinrude videos and tests, if they falsified anything or messed with the boats in an unfair way we'd see Yamaha and Mercury screaming and filing lawsuits. Just like the power curves Evinrude has published comparing to the SHO and 250xs, and other engines, if they weren't true everyone would know it via cease and desist orders.
Old 07-21-2016, 06:45 AM
  #45  
HTJ
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 11,033
Received 3,108 Likes on 1,917 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Adam9066 View Post
How would I have set the test up? Either A) I would have had Yamaha come in and setup and run there own boat or B) let a completely independent company like Boat test run the entire test instead of just being an observer.

It really is this simple. If Evinrude, Merc, Yam, etc etc make a promotional video there product is always going to be superior. If some one can't see thru this.....well I understand how Obummer got elected twice.
Old 07-21-2016, 06:54 AM
  #46  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,658
Received 586 Likes on 383 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by stowaway View Post
Do you think they ran 30? was it smooth seas? No, they ran faster and it was a bit choppy. Look at the mpg graphs for the g2 and you see a giant plateau so you get the same mpg at 25 as you do at 40. This was a test where the Yamaha had to keep up with the G2. It couldn't match the fuel burn at the same speeds. That isn't saying that if you let the Yamaha boat slow down for best mpg that it won't make it to KW, I bet it will, just 30+ minutes later.

.
Exactly. The G2 has a very fat efficiency range whereas the Yamaha peaks and then falls off. If both boats were run at the Yamaha's peak efficiency, they'd probably get there at the same time with about the same amount of fuel. But push the throttles up a few ticks and the Yamaha can't keep up. You have to run the Yamaha slower which means you get there later or NEVER.
Old 07-21-2016, 06:55 AM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Satellite Beach, FL
Posts: 702
Received 365 Likes on 184 Posts
Default

All I will say is that I only see etec pitting itself against Yamaha with all their propaganda. Does anyone ever see Suzuki, Honda or Yamaha marketing/advertising their motor against an etec?
Old 07-21-2016, 07:00 AM
  #48  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bradenton FL
Posts: 2,155
Received 720 Likes on 321 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by chad.sfds View Post
All I will say is that I only see etec pitting itself against Yamaha with all their propaganda. Does anyone ever see Suzuki, Honda or Yamaha marketing/advertising their motor against an etec?
Their loss I guess. Look at all the free advertising Etec gets by posting a few Youtube videos. Pretty smart!
Old 07-21-2016, 07:03 AM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 1,618
Received 166 Likes on 96 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by HTJ View Post
It really is this simple. If Evinrude, Merc, Yam, etc etc make a promotional video there product is always going to be superior. If some one can't see thru this.....well I understand how Obummer got elected twice.
I agree with you which Has been my point from the begging that this is nothing more then marketing. He asked how would I trust it and that would be if evinrude invited Yamaha to come in and rig prop and run thier own boat not Yamaha run their own test.

This would allow each manufacture to have fun control over their setups not a one sided view of it.

I doubt Yamaha would ever step up to the plate though. But I doubt any manufacturer would.
Old 07-21-2016, 07:10 AM
  #50  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,658
Received 586 Likes on 383 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Adam9066 View Post
I agree with you which Has been my point from the begging that this is nothing more then marketing. He asked how would I trust it and that would be if evinrude invited Yamaha to come in and rig prop and run thier own boat not Yamaha run their own test.

This would allow each manufacture to have fun control over their setups not a one sided view of it.

I doubt Yamaha would ever step up to the plate though. But I doubt any manufacturer would.
They don't need to invite Yamaha. Yamaha can run their own test just like Evinrude did. But I suspect that they won't do it because the Yamaha won't win. The fact is Yamaha has been bested on fuel efficiency. The performance reports show it, this video shows it.

There are truth-in-advertising laws. See https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/medi...th-advertising. A manufacturer can't just fake a test and get away with it.
Old 07-21-2016, 07:31 AM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 1,618
Received 166 Likes on 96 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Whaler27 View Post
They don't need to invite Yamaha. Yamaha can run their own test just like Evinrude did. But I suspect that they won't do it because the Yamaha won't win. The fact is Yamaha has been bested on fuel efficiency. The performance reports show it, this video shows it.

There are truth-in-advertising laws. See https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/medi...th-advertising. A manufacturer can't just fake a test and get away with it.
listen then can manipulate the test so as to not be lying but yet still give an advantage to one boat. How you ask well the RX4 prop is more efficient then the Rebel but yet technically if I run a 18 rebel its still within the manufacture specs for my boat. I am going to yield better fuel economy out of an RX4 then my Rebel props but my Rebels are supposed to give me better performance at least as told to me by the Evinrude dealer. so you can take a boat and put it to manufacture specs and not get the best fuel economy and vise versa.

Secondly as others have stated the G2 has a fatter range of peak MPG then the yamaha so they could run the yamaha purposefully out of its best RPM range to the the best MPG.

They never lied technically they just stretched the truth or rather took advantage of the design advantages of one motor and weakness of another.

Like I stated earlier how do you thing Ford, Dodge, and Chevy get away with all claiming to have the longest lasting most dependable trucks on the road? Because they all use different measurement to come to that conclusion. Just like Evinrude gave you just enough information to come to your own conclusions but not enough to actually hang them selves.
Old 07-21-2016, 07:39 AM
  #52  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Wasnt this an independent test?? done by Iboats (or whoever)?
Old 07-21-2016, 07:52 AM
  #53  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: FL Panhandle
Posts: 1,326
Likes: 0
Received 69 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Adam9066 View Post
listen then can manipulate the test so as to not be lying but yet still give an advantage to one boat. How you ask well the RX4 prop is more efficient then the Rebel but yet technically if I run a 18 rebel its still within the manufacture specs for my boat. I am going to yield better fuel economy out of an RX4 then my Rebel props but my Rebels are supposed to give me better performance at least as told to me by the Evinrude dealer. so you can take a boat and put it to manufacture specs and not get the best fuel economy and vise versa.

Secondly as others have stated the G2 has a fatter range of peak MPG then the yamaha so they could run the yamaha purposefully out of its best RPM range to the the best MPG.

They never lied technically they just stretched the truth or rather took advantage of the design advantages of one motor and weakness of another.

Like I stated earlier how do you thing Ford, Dodge, and Chevy get away with all claiming to have the longest lasting most dependable trucks on the road? Because they all use different measurement to come to that conclusion. Just like Evinrude gave you just enough information to come to your own conclusions but not enough to actually hang them selves.
Don't try to talk common sense into some of these people they just don't want to get it.

I don't understand why they don't take the marketing for what it is, instead of trying to always push the hype as 100% honest and factual.

All these companies stretch the truth as far as it could possibly go and not technically be lying.
Old 07-21-2016, 08:14 AM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,645
Received 74 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

A couple of things.....no, they did not include the cost of the oil.
However, the money you spend on the oil, pretty much offsets the cost of annual maintenance on a four stroke, I've had both on the same boat, and I've done the math.....so call that a wash, so now, the increase in performance and the increase in efficiency are real numbers that don't need to be offset by anything else.....remember, oil or maintenance, it's a wash......your fuel savings are real savings....but it goes beyond that, it's how the boat performs with the increase in torque......that's the real difference, at least it was for me......

Also, don't think for one second that if these videos were "rigged" that Yamaha would just sit on their A$$ and allow them to get away with it.....the reason they don't counter it is because they can't.....I guess they could put out a video showing how much they sell compared to Evinrude......but that may not have the same impact......just saying.....I don't hate yamaha, I just don't like them as much as the Etec......
Old 07-21-2016, 08:37 AM
  #55  
HTJ
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 11,033
Received 3,108 Likes on 1,917 Posts
Default

How about this, IMO on an offshore ride there are 4 important factors..

1 Reliability

2 Reliability

3 Reliability

4 Economy, performance, longevity & resale.

1 Through 3 are Kinda hard to video.
Old 07-21-2016, 08:39 AM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,917
Received 712 Likes on 411 Posts
Default

So here is the real test. If you had the choice between the same boat and the same motors and you could rig/run them however you choose but only had the same amount of gas to run that same distance, which would you choose? Would you take the Yammy boat and hope you don't run out if gas or would you take the G2 boat?

30% fuel savings is a lot to leave on the dock for the sake of staying brand loyal. I would need more compelling argument to stay with Yamaha than it sells more motors or sells quicker.

I wonder what the rebuild cost is on a G2 vs the Yamaha. Anyone know?
Old 07-21-2016, 09:15 AM
  #57  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: FL Panhandle
Posts: 1,326
Likes: 0
Received 69 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 1blueheron View Post
So here is the real test. If you had the choice between the same boat and the same motors and you could rig/run them however you choose but only had the same amount of gas to run that same distance, which would you choose? Would you take the Yammy boat and hope you don't run out if gas or would you take the G2 boat?

30% fuel savings is a lot to leave on the dock for the sake of staying brand loyal. I would need more compelling argument to stay with Yamaha than it sells more motors or sells quicker.

I wonder what the rebuild cost is on a G2 vs the Yamaha. Anyone know?
your assumption was the cost for all four brands are the same. (they aren't of course but your speaking hypothetically?)

my answer is I really don't know. I would hope in this hypothetical excercise I could run all of them to help me decide.
Old 07-21-2016, 09:34 AM
  #58  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by emudryj View Post
I normally try to stay away from these threads too
1- not sure where you are getting your figures in oil... Last time I bought XD100 I paid $31 per gallon and it has been established more than once in this forum that it is a wash between changing oil and adding oil. I highly doubt you have to add oil "every time you leave your dock" unless you are doing super long trips and only have the engine internal oil tank. You do not need to run XD100. you can use most 2S oil and the engine will run fine with it...
2- Clearly, you have never been on a boat with E-tecs before... your comments are based on your grandpa 2S engine. although there may be a different sound between a 2s and a 4s at idle, the wind noise itself would cover (if any) noise difference between both engines when running.

I have owned both. Twin F250s to G2 300s. Every other time or so I'm at the dock idling, somebody would come to boat to chat about the engine and be surprised is a 2 stroke...
LOL, i have owned ETEC'S in the past and it was a horrible experience 2 250hp 2006 motors
but that's in the past and no Relevance to this thread
i want to see these new G2 motors 5 years down the road out of warranty and see just how reliable they really are , lets see if what you save on fuel today wont cost you double or triple in repairs later ....
Old 07-21-2016, 09:46 AM
  #59  
HTJ
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 11,033
Received 3,108 Likes on 1,917 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vasohnovas View Post
LOL, i have owned ETEC'S in the past and it was a horrible experience 2 250hp 2006 motors
but that's in the past and no Relevance to this thread
i want to see these new G2 motors 5 years down the road out of warranty and see just how reliable they really are , lets see if what you save on fuel today wont cost you double or triple in repairs later ....

Is plenty of wannabe beta testers beating the G2 drum but this is the reality of it.
Old 07-21-2016, 09:49 AM
  #60  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 2,548
Likes: 0
Received 262 Likes on 182 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by floridarob View Post
A couple of things.....no, they did not include the cost of the oil.
However, the money you spend on the oil, pretty much offsets the cost of annual maintenance on a four stroke, I've had both on the same boat, and I've done the math.....so call that a wash, so now, the increase in performance and the increase in efficiency are real numbers that don't need to be offset by anything else.....remember, oil or maintenance, it's a wash......your fuel savings are real savings............
I am skeptical that 4-stroke oil changes at 100 hour intervals would cost as much as premium 2-stroke oil on an on-going basis. Certainly not if performed DIY. But for the sake of argument, let's assume this is true. Even assuming the 2-stroke oil and 4-stroke crank-case oil are a wash, we still have to "offset" the additional cost of purchase.

I received quotes on two engines this past spring, both 150 HP. The quotes were from several dealers for each of the engines. One engine was an ETEC, the other a 4-stroke. The ETEC quotes averaged roughly $4K more than the average for the 4-stroke engine. As a percentage of purchase price, the ETEC was 35% more expensive than the 4-stroke. That is a steep premium and difficult to offset with reduced fuel burn. The price differential buys over 1300 gallons of fuel!

I may end up with an ETEC when I repower, but it will not be because I was persuaded by a misleading "dollar sense challenge" video.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.