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1976 23 seacraft restoration. 1-2, questions post 400-401, plumbing/livewell?

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1976 23 seacraft restoration. 1-2, questions post 400-401, plumbing/livewell?

Old 07-22-2016, 10:43 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Double tyme View Post
Care to go ahead and bless leaving the wet foam in for me and save me some trouble?

That's the first smiley I've ever used in my life by the way.
Nope. It's not about the excess weight for me. It's about knowing it's not supposed to be there. It would bother me. And I would pull it out. Excess water trapped in a bilge will start to smell over time even if structurally it's no big deal. But that's just me.
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Old 07-23-2016, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by maxie View Post
Nope. It's not about the excess weight for me. It's about knowing it's not supposed to be there. It would bother me. And I would pull it out. Excess water trapped in a bilge will start to smell over time even if structurally it's no big deal. But that's just me.
It would bug the heck out of me. It's coming out this morning. It's not enough of a headache to warrant even thinking about leaving it.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:02 AM
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Really its not that hard to get the foam out. And if you are not going to raise the deck its even simpler. Get all the foam out. Take your time cutting the glass on top and think about the next steps-there are two considerations. First you want to cut the holes large so it is easy to get the foam out. Perhaps 1 inch or so in. But you dont want to cut it and lose your height. You will use the glass as your height guide.

Lastly, think about whether your deck will be at the SAME level as the previous deck or are you going to put the deck ON TOP of the lip of the inner liner. If you do the latter, then you have to build up the stringer the thickness of the liner. We used dry wall screws screwed into the liner and string to get everything level.

You can see what I am talking about here and following pages.
http://www.classicseacraft.com/commu...t=26937&page=2
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:21 AM
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I agree with maxie, I would cut the center out of the tops of the stringers to remove all the foam then re-pour and cut it flush. Cover the tops and down the sides with fiberglass equal thickness to the original layup.
If you are going to raise the deck form up the extra height before you pour the new foam then cut it to flush with the top of the form.

Great project, I look forward to watching it come together.
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Old 07-23-2016, 01:21 PM
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90% of foam is out. I knew I wouldn't be able to do it all once the sun got up overhead so I got 95% of the stringers 100% clean if that makes sense. Took about four hours of legitimate hard work.

I've been holding off on chopping out the casting deck as its a good spot to keep tools but the tool time is wrapping up for now. It will be gone in the next few days as will the last of the foam in the aft stringers. Those should go easy. It's all the hard to access places that are tricky.

Note: do NOT remove your tyvek suit just because you're done with the cutting.

I am probably going to raise the deck using pour foam and forms. Don't see why I would reglass what I had then build a second layer on top. Mights well do it all at once.

I will be cutting foam after it expands to even height so I am thinking I can't use PVC. Is that correct? Just standard closed cell urethane foam then?

What should I use for forms? Any smooth plywood (like 3/4 mdf?) and paste wax?
Is closed cell foam all the same?
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Last edited by Double tyme; 07-24-2016 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:20 PM
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Use the 2 part marine PU foam to fill the stringers....its closed cell and rated to be fuel resistant.......use a smooth finish wood or MDF for your forms...you can either cover the form with packaging tape as it normally has a release coating on the outside, or use a PVA Mold Release...Evercoat makes one that can be bought at your local worst marine or even an auto parts store. Also the 2 part PU foam comes in many densities....2, 4, ...8 lb density.....the higher density expands less so you use more, but it makes for a good glassing platform and it will have less tendency to absorb water over the long term.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:15 AM
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US Composites has some helpful FAQ on their foams. They discuss densities, expansion, and mold release info.
http://www.uscomposites.com/faq_foam.html

I used the 4 lb US Composites foam the last time I did fuel tanks. When they say you have 45 seconds to pour it after mixing it, they're not joking. It starts solidifying and expanding quickly. Seeing as you're filling stringer cavities I think it'll be easier to get it poured than when you're trying to finesse pour it around the edges of a gas tank. Make sure to order plenty of mixing containers because you only get one mix out of each one. Also, I used one of the drill powered paint mixers to mix up the parts. Plan on it being disposable because it'll get covered in hardened foam. I have one of those already ruined by foam, you're welcome to use it if I can find it. Gotta be buried somewhere in the garage still.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:50 AM
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Are you pouring foam around the fuel tank?
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Old 07-26-2016, 02:51 AM
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This is a great project ! Looking forward to seeing it as it comes along.
( it would be nice if your pics were rotated 90 degrees, though )
I spent the better part of a year working on my old Kenner and it still needs work. But man was it worth it !

I love those Seacrafts ! Might look for one myself later this year.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Reelescape1 View Post
Are you pouring foam around the fuel tank?
Were you out behind Morris island heading towards lighthouse point flying an American flag this Sunday morning? We were anchored by that first creek mouth after the beach and could've sworn that was your boat.

I don't think so. Do you know anybody local for tanks by the way? I'm up in the air on tank. There's one in west palm (used) out of our boats, may send a proxy (thanks THT) to look at waiting on a quote from palmetto troopers buddy up in Elgin too.

I've seen so many issues with foamed in tanks I'd rather just tab it in and roll on. Why, where do you land on foaming in tank? I was thinking I will foam the outer channels like it was, and then build forms 3-4" above existing stringer systems giving me a Positive point to cut off excess foam and glass over after the fact. Thoughts? I guess the other option would be re use the glass I cut out and then build up deck with dimensional lumber. The part I like about that is it gives me "meat" to screw to, but then I also get screw holes in wood, and we all know what that can lead to...

I had a window this afternoon so I took it and got the forward hatch out. My stringer system is now totally foam free and ready for rebuild.

Next is yanking the liner. I would really really really like to get it out with just loosening the cap. Really don't want to remove it. If I go much further myself I'm going to have to build a structure or get a craigslist carport up there. I'm in really good shape and I almost passed out just now from two hard hours in the sun.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by KennerTunnel63 View Post
This is a great project ! Looking forward to seeing it as it comes along.
( it would be nice if your pics were rotated 90 degrees, though )
I spent the better part of a year working on my old Kenner and it still needs work. But man was it worth it !

I love those Seacrafts ! Might look for one myself later this year.
Kenner I'm sorry bout the pics they look good to me. I post from iPad 99% of the time.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:42 PM
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The Ipad is the reason they show up 90* off for PC users. I'm not sure how to fix the issue though. I think when you rotate an apple product to take a picture, this is what happens. Works great on all apple products, but nothing else.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:46 PM
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You can also save some of the better foam. Break it up into small pieces and add to the foam party when you start pouring again.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:11 PM
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Double,
I will send pics of my console layout later this afternoon.
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by blindmullet View Post
You can also save some of the better foam. Break it up into small pieces and add to the foam party when you start pouring again.

Eight bags at the street for the trash men tomorrow. no saving forty year old foam For me.

The plan is to get forms built in the next week or so, slowly but surely (not really my style though so stay tuned for some Saturday results). I will use melamine plywood 3/4" or so and cut it into 10" strips then pop a line or sharpie a 4" line on it (that's the deck raise amount) then screw to existing fiberglass to get a positive line to cut my foam off at. I really need to get liner out and finish stripping jewelry off the cap before I get much further along.

I am also considering saving the front hatch, turning it sideways, and building a fish box in the bow with it. If I get creative on the interior design I think I can get a functional size maybe 40-50" long by full center channel (28") wide. Please don't anybody comment about the two little foam areas visible in bow I didn't have it in me to get them out after the work I got done today. The lid and the channel are in good (ok fair) shape I'd just have to build an insulated fish box which I don't think will be that hard.

You can see where it dies out by the 2x4 in the pic. If you look close on the port side in the liner there is a vertical line and an X, marking the front of the console. Tank should be about 60-66" long I would guess, and I will probably build some sort of storage under console as well.
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Double tyme View Post
90% of foam is out. I knew I wouldn't be able to do it all once the sun got up overhead so I got 95% of the stringers 100% clean if that makes sense. Took about four hours of legitimate hard work.

I've been holding off on chopping out the casting deck as its a good spot to keep tools but the tool time is wrapping up for now. It will be gone in the next few days as will the last of the foam in the aft stringers. Those should go easy. It's all the hard to access places that are tricky.

Note: do NOT remove your tyvek suit just because you're done with the cutting.

I am probably going to raise the deck using pour foam and forms. Don't see why I would reglass what I had then build a second layer on top. Mights well do it all at once.

I will be cutting foam after it expands to even height so I am thinking I can't use PVC. Is that correct? Just standard closed cell urethane foam then?

What should I use for forms? Any smooth plywood (like 3/4 mdf?) and paste wax?
Is closed cell foam all the same?

I posted my build detailing making the forms. If you look it is pretty simple. We used quarter inch luan for the forms. Just drywall screwed them. Pay attention to the strings description to get it right height.
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Elkins View Post
I posted my build detailing making the forms. If you look it is pretty simple. We used quarter inch luan for the forms. Just drywall screwed them. Pay attention to the strings description to get it right height.
Thanks. Couldn't see pics before I couldn't get my old login to work and I had to create a new csc login. Will dig into it tonight or tomorrow.

Edit- I was thinking I would have to fasten mine above the existing glass, screwing the outsides. That's why I was gonna go 3/4". You only went an inch up or so on yours I'm going 4! Guess I could use gorilla tape or something maybe on the Luan? Were you able to just use release wax on the Luan or did you skin it with plastic wrap?

Double edit- that description is horrible. I was planning on screwing the joints of my forms too, like you would nails baseboard on an outside corner if that makes sense.

Last edited by Double tyme; 07-26-2016 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:29 PM
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I used 2" polyurethane foam panels cut to sized and glassed for my stringers. When I filled some of the large voids I wish I would have saved some of the foam to mix in.
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:45 PM
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I'm going to take a breather and plan. I have a monstrous material list if I'm going to do this myself, and I can't really pour foam til I'm prepared to glass stringers immediately after, which I'm not ready to do just yet.

I also need to edumucate myself a bit more on the intricacies of the structural elements. Reading some of these other build threads, the common theme (on the good ones) seems to be plan for months, measure four Times, cut once.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:35 PM
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try here...
http://bateau2.com/howto/seacraft/index.php
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