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The new compmillennia 39 cat

Old 04-27-2015, 12:36 PM
  #121  
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8 inches per mile as a rule of thumb works on the order of a few miles, on the basis of 1 mile. The curvature of the earth is by definition non-linear. But I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just drop it.

Thanks for the info Jim.
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:23 PM
  #122  
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i bet you can count to potato too.
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:00 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
One of the criteria is that the gutter curbs are within 1/4" of the pool's water level to take away the resurgent bounce from the swimmers. The waves swimmers make roll into the gutter and keep the water calmer, ie; faster. All well, until they filled the pool and the curb at one end was above the other. The curbs were perfectly straight as the builder and my surveyor Dad confirmed using an engineering level. Yo Dad, the water is level, meaning level to the curvature of the earth. Fast pools for dummies is to fill the pool, mark the water height and set the curb tile following the curvature of the water.

To prove it to myself I set up our $10,000 laser level adjacent to one end of the building (180 ft) and shot the opposite wall. Then set up near the far wall and shot back. Marks did not line up by a significant measure. I want to say more than a 1/4", it was a long time ago. Maybe the world is flatter now. Does it matter for a 39 footer? Not at all. Who knows it could be faster!

You may make light of measuring to the width of a human hair, but a good boat builder will often work to to plus or minus a RCH. The Red ones being the finest guage.
Jim, The engineering level you referred to could've very well been out of calibrations.
As it sounds about the 10k laser you have. What you described about the set up of yours reading more than a quarter from one end to the other should not happen. I would expect yours to be much more accurate than my topcon laser at less than a tenth of the cost. My topcon is +-10 arc sec which at 180' is +- 0.1"
However I'm sure you've thought of this, but just incase, sometimes the simplest things slip past us.
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:49 AM
  #124  
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OK..OK..lets get back to some PIC'S.....LOL
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:55 AM
  #125  
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All I can say is try it for yourself. As Matt Gentt said its inconsequential for small boats and short distances, and I agree that all instruments measure with a degree of error from instrument or operator.

Stating that, I have over many years, seen evidence of what I am trying to describe and so have developed a certain methodology to minimize the errors, and have shared and recieved methods with others. You do the best you can.

Real fun was fabricating a cabin top for a frigate converted to a yacht almost a tenth of a mile long in LOA, shipped 7,000 miles from North Carolina, assembled while in the water and which the steel hull changed shape depending upon the temperature and way the sun hit it.
measure twice, measure twice, measure three times........
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:05 AM
  #126  
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Back to the 39. Console under construction.

Console with coffin box so far weighs 125 lbs. Could have been 2/3 of that weight but the requested T-Top, sized for a small helicopter landing deck, required additional reinforcement to support it.

It needs to be light weight so that Ray can fit 200 lbs of electronics!

The glass screen electronics are flat. Curvature of the earth was not considered,

When we discussed a 3 lb carbon fiber toilet, you know its getting serious.
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Last edited by Otseg; 04-28-2015 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:08 AM
  #127  
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Wow
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Old 04-28-2015, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
It has a steel ladder frame
... We then sand blasted the surface and made an epoxy grout which was spread with a steel sweeper blade running on the tracks, to make the surface true. Then the surface was flow coated with epoxy/sanded five times to gain vacuum integrity and fairness. ...

Okay, I have mold envy, but also a question: I've always thought of prolonged exposure to heat as the enemy of epoxies. Are you using a resin that's heat resistant, or is 165 degrees not the threshold where this is an issue? Or did the Gougeon Brothers lead me astray about this back in the early 1980's?

[And just to be clear, I'm asking about the epoxy coated top of the table, not of parts that only spend a day or two on there. I'm well aware of the exothermic reaction of kicking epoxy.]

Last edited by sullivan504; 04-28-2015 at 07:53 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-28-2015, 06:20 PM
  #129  
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Different epoxies, different heat distortion tempertures. We elevate prepreg epoxy laminates to 250 F to cure them. West 105-206, a room temperture cure.

A neat resin sample will test lower than a laminate sample. Our resin on the table was mixed with sand to make an epoxy grout, and that elevated the HDT of the mixture. It then had a coating of pure epoxy.

While we may get a peak exotherm in a laminate of 165F to 200F from a part on the mold,, its a short time and the table absorbs it. Our typical post cure is under 150 F.
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:24 AM
  #130  
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This is a section of a helicopter landing deck we made, designed to have a tilt rotor aircraft with wheels land on it. It was designed to take a 4 ton load at 4 G's. Any landing you can walk away from is a good one I always say.

We are using a similar configuration for Rays cockpit sole as every part in the boat is a load member working with the rest of the structure. Less laminate though, as with the speeds we hope to achieve we can dodge someone trying to land on us.
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:27 AM
  #131  
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The beam is quite wide, but we like it. it was not a hard sell.
This is what we told Ray he would get if we were 12' wide.

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This is what he is getting

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Old 04-30-2015, 09:28 AM
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this is the most amazing thread. Where is that frigate/yacht today
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:28 PM
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Haaaaaa. I was about to say, I want a new, wider boat. I think I'll keep mine...
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:39 AM
  #134  
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How will these cats ride in relation to heavier cats. I know sometimes there is no replacement for displacement. Do these lighter cats (more referring to the 828) launch off the waves with their light weight? what is the benefit of lighter weight strictly from ride perspective?
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Old 05-01-2015, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by baracuda View Post
How will these cats ride in relation to heavier cats. I know sometimes there is no replacement for displacement. Do these lighter cats (more referring to the 828) launch off the waves with their light weight? what is the benefit of lighter weight strictly from ride perspective?
I know that my 22' cat rode like a sports car car and adding five feet to same basic design with a stepped bottom, at 27 feet it rode like an SUV. The most noise comes from the pop up cleats. Size does matter.

Every single detail is important. From the experience of building 4 to 500 Flats boats and we were the lightest, but considered to have the best "ride" I had the opportunity to experiment with the laminate and design once a week if i wished. Every new boat was sea trialed before delivery and the differences noted. It was the materials and processes used in construction and the design that made the difference. We have done every thing we can for the "ride". The journey has begun, and at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:42 AM
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The ride of my 22 is unbelievable. It rides much higher in the water and packs more air than a lot of the heavier cats I have ridden which sometimes have a quirky motion as they ride through the water rather than on top of it. Much harder to bottom out the tunnel coming off a quartering or following sea. Although light, the construction of these boats is super stiff so they lack that flex or shudder that comes on landing. Nothing like the looks on my guests, who own much larger top name monohulls, faces as they instinctively hold on and brace themselves for impact which never comes. I can't imagine what another 17 feet would feel like, but hope to see one day.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:47 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
The beam is quite wide, but we like it. it was not a hard sell.
This is what we told Ray he would get if we were 12' wide.



This is what he is getting

As usual Jim, you have made this a fun and informative post. Keep up the good work.
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Old 05-01-2015, 06:40 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by baracuda View Post
how will these cats ride in relation to heavier cats. I know sometimes there is no replacement for displacement. Do these lighter cats (more referring to the 828) launch off the waves with their light weight? What is the benefit of lighter weight strictly from ride perspective?
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weight does not always equal better ride
weight does slow you down and burn more fuel
with proper design - construction techniques - and materials
you can have a great ride - economy-and performance
take most cats being built today in the 30' -34' range if they could lose 20% of their weight they would pick up 1/2 mile to the gallon and 6-8 mph and not change their ride
improve the bottom design a little and gain a little more
take the same weight cat stretch it to 39' its going to ride very good
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:59 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by raysmith View Post
barracuda
weight does not always equal better ride
weight does slow you down and burn more fuel
with proper design - construction techniques - and materials
you can have a great ride - economy-and performance
take most cats being built today in the 30' -34' range if they could lose 20% of their weight they would pick up 1/2 mile to the gallon and 6-8 mph and not change their ride
improve the bottom design a little and gain a little more
take the same weight cat stretch it to 39' its going to ride very good
Well said, why is it so many boat builders can't understand this. Weight is the enemy.
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Old 05-05-2015, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pas View Post
Well said, why is it so many boat builders can't understand this. Weight is the enemy.

IT TRULY IS. The fact of the matter is many builders acknowledge how to reduce weight..and some can do this but how to execute this goal properly and understanding the correct proportions and formulas involved only comes from experience. The use of certain materials and the correct methods such as CF, Kevlar, resin infused, vacuum bagged and then autoclave, oven, or I call it baked..lol is not ALL widely done in the industry due to lack of knowledge let alone costs.

Secondly..there are many factors in building a boat with such materials in so they work in harmony... every manufacturer will have there own spin on that. Sponsoon design, lift, exit and actual water length of the boat is what makes these Compmillennia's really work..That's all I'm saying on that.. Jim understands what it takes to get the water through the tunnel efficiently and doing so without these big massive wakes you see in a aft shot on You tube from a twin motored cat. My 27 rides so much better than the 2 previous 27 Cats I owned and operated. One I had 100's of hours on. The Comp. has a totally different feel going through a wave, coming off a wave...and the fuel mileage is unheard of in the industry. I am really looking forward to my 39, a different set up more in a open designed pilot house...and picking up some fine pointers from Ray who has just about thought of everything for his boat..it will make my build that much easier.
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