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The new compmillennia 39 cat

Old 02-13-2016, 03:09 PM
  #701  
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Originally Posted by Jassman View Post
Now you have peaked my interest..I like the FPT's and Arneson ASD-8's..

http://www.mshs.com/pdf/Products/FPT...0450%20570.pdf

http://new.arneson-industries.com/te...echnical-specs
Jassman I like the Xpower drive since it fits on a Bravo gimbal and shifts internally less power needed to turn it and no trans needed. The Arneson sticks out to far.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:12 PM
  #702  
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Originally Posted by Boatless33 View Post
Isn't Yanmar supposed to be coming out with a small, ~600hp engine? The FY01 has been on boatdiesel's database for a while but no info. If it ever comes out, based on the current rumors and speculation, I would imagine that it would be a viable option for a boat like this.
I have been hearing this rumor for years but every year nothing. A couple of years ago at Miami they had something but nobody knew anything about it or was willing to give details. They need to make a common rail 400 hp inline 6. The FPT and Cummins are already close to 600 HP. I think a smaller engine making that kind of power would not have a long lifespan.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:19 PM
  #703  
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Originally Posted by Riptide31 View Post
I've never had a diesel in a boat, but I know they cost more in a truck, and weigh a lot. Is the benefit of their fuel use enough to outweigh the initial cost, (I've heard maintenance is expensive for them on boats. I don't understand why--it's not on trucks) and added weight?
I really don't know why everybody says that. It is a 4 stroke engine minus the spark plugs. Maintenance is oil changes for engines and drives, annual fuel filters, zincs and coolant every 2 years. Water pump impellers are suppose to make it 1000 hours but I change them every 2 or 3 years. Valve adjustment and timing belt at 1000 hrs.

I don't think you will ever recover the cost in fuel savings, but with my boat, I have a lot more space than a similar size outboard boat, my running costs are half, diesel is cheaper and I use less of it.

I am very happy with my engines and would prefer diesels for my next boat (39 Compmillenia hopefully) but with a 7 year warranty, $50,000-$100,000+ less initial cost, it might be hard to pass on the Verado option if the boat can do 70 and get 2 mpg going 45. Lets put is this way the top end would be the same with 370 hp Yanmars or Mercurys and you would get 1 mpg better than the outboard boat. Nice clean transom, no gas to explode. No question it would be better, the real question is it worth it.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:21 PM
  #704  
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Originally Posted by raysmith View Post
Being a past owner of a Smith 45 with the power-vent drive I can tell you its a very robust drive
I could'nt break it
Extremely low maintenance
The way its pocketed into the hull allows for a very shallow draft
I always liked that boat, seems like the whole boat is robust.
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:09 PM
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It's going to be hard to overcome 400 hp under 30k and at the per pound package it's currently offered, time is going to tell us it's longevity. Having the back of the boat free from obstuctions is the most appealing, but is it worth 100k? I would say the market is not strong enough to support it, look at the Sea Vee 39 pod boat. I thought that boat would change the CC market for sure. I'm not aware of a boat with the speeds and economy's you are trying to target though, that could change the game.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:28 PM
  #706  
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The pod drives down side is the draft they require
A pocketed surface drive , 24" draft ,with a 70 mph top end, and 3 mpg cruise could be interesting.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by raysmith View Post
The pod drives down side is the draft they require
A pocketed surface drive , 24" draft ,with a 70 mph top end, and 3 mpg cruise could be interesting.

Im working on that..pocketed surface drive, possible express style cat....A drive with transmission, tunnel tab or pocketed 380k planes or something similar. My experiences are when you have that much torque coming out of the whole there is a few second delay before the turbos hit...then wham bam thank you mam..the boat pulls like a freight train. That is to much torque in my experience for some drive without a tranny....and I am thinking for longevity sake..I have blown my share of bravo boats over the years. I am use to a #6 drive with a 1350 tranny behind her and same with the ASD-8...very hard to blow up even when racing...
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:56 AM
  #708  
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Originally Posted by Jassman View Post
Im working on that..pocketed surface drive, possible express style cat....A drive with transmission, tunnel tab or pocketed 380k planes or something similar. My experiences are when you have that much torque coming out of the whole there is a few second delay before the turbos hit...then wham bam thank you mam..the boat pulls like a freight train. That is to much torque in my experience for some drive without a tranny....and I am thinking for longevity sake..I have blown my share of bravo boats over the years. I am use to a #6 drive with a 1350 tranny behind her and same with the ASD-8...very hard to blow up even when racing...
Jass...You need to somehow marry Don Smith's Power Vent drive system to this cat. So...a 45' + Comp sounds nice, huh?

Last edited by NothnButTheTruth; 02-15-2016 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:29 PM
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I was also impressed by Fabio Buzzi's drive. We were teaming to compete for the Combatant Craft Medium contract using Fabio's design as the parent craft. He holds the Bermuda challenge record currently with his boat using the FPT diesels and this drive. Was a hardship, not, to buzz around on Lake Como at 70 mph on the demo. It would be suited to our Cat design also.
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Old 02-15-2016, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
I was also impressed by Fabio Buzzi's drive. We were teaming to compete for the Combatant Craft Medium contract using Fabio's design as the parent craft. He holds the Bermuda challenge record currently with his boat using the FPT diesels and this drive. Was a hardship, not, to buzz around on Lake Como at 70 mph on the demo. It would be suited to our Cat design also.


Wow..that is impressive. I like the set up including the pocket, tabs and protective swim platform...Jim what did that boat run on the top end and what was the mileage at best rpms...just approximates.
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:39 AM
  #711  
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Default Surface drive characteristics

I have a keen interest in better understanding these surface drives like the ones from Buzi or Don Smith's Powervent. These types of drives are not all that common and I've never had the chance to experience one. I understand they are great at high speed. But I would like to know from those with experience what they are like in other operating conditions. Perhaps Ray could chime in on the Powervent. I know it was supposed to solve all the slow speed handling problems, but does it really handle well around the dock, when backing down on a fish? What is the trolling wake like (seems like it would be bubbly but maybe no more so than outboards). Can they hold plane at low speed when it is really rough and you are fighting your way through the slop. One person I met who used the Powervent on a custom one-off said it was noisy and vibrated a lot. Wondering if this is a characteristic of the drive system or just a problem with that single boat. I would appreciate any comments from folks with first hand knowledge.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:03 AM
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quote=Jassman;8716852]Wow..that is impressive. I like the set up including the pocket, tabs and protective swim platform...Jim what did that boat run on the top end and what was the mileage at best rpms...just approximates.[/quote]

Felt like 70 to me but what we were looking at was adding a Kilo-Ton of weight each time and re testing. We ran out of cockpit room to add more weight before we overloaded to the extent the boat would not get on plane. Fabio spent a lot of time here in Washington N.C. working with Reggie Fountain on a different military project and there are guys in town can comment on his drives. Ray for sure on the power vent.

You can see that the skeg is adjustable to fine tune the x dimension and you may notice the rudder may kick up for strike protection.

It was a hoot to go blasting up and down Lake Como and get the narration from Fabio which gazillion dollar home was Sir Richard Branson's and which was used as a set in the Star Wars movie. Our exhaust noise reverberated off the mountains. You would think they would care but he has been doing it so long they must not.

Most people here in town miss the sound of the Fountain's pounding up and down the Pamlico on 100 mph tests every afternoon.
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Old 02-15-2016, 05:01 PM
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The Buzzi Drive is nothing more than a shaft surface drive. Not rocket science by any means. Soooo many versions of it, over the years. The Power Vent is quite a bit different, with many more advantages. I recommend you dig into it a bit deeper.
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Old 02-15-2016, 05:22 PM
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It appears the Buzzi drive and the power vent are very similar
Both are fixed shaft with a rudder
Both duct the exhaust to the prop for aeration to help getting on plane
Once up on plane air is ducted to the prop for the surface drive effect with out surfacing the propeller
Typically you have big wheels so low speed handling is great
My Smith was very heavy 24000 lb plus
It took considerable effort to plane although as soon as the turbos spooled up it took off
A hull that doesn't push a wall of water getting on plane would leap instantly
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by NothnButTheTruth View Post
The Buzzi Drive is nothing more than a shaft surface drive. Not rocket science by any means. Soooo many versions of it, over the years. The Power Vent is quite a bit different, with many more advantages. I recommend you dig into it a bit deeper.
I have some limited experience with the Buzzi, Levi and Arneson drives, none with the Smith. My rigger and friend Dave Wilson, has experience with all those and has sea trialed the Smith boat and it it did everything Don claimed.

My perception is that the Powervent manages the air to vent the tunnel seamlessly from idle to planing when the props are close to center line in a V hull. Behind a narrow cat hull that does not have a hump to climb, and which can vent readily from the side, something of what Buzzi does would be sufficient.

The bigger issue is that I am having trouble wrapping my mind around the cost of the diesels today. Not that cost of a 300 hp outboard which is as much as the VW I bought my wife last year is not crazy, It is that a 250 hp Yanmar or Steyer with Stern drive is twice that much.

Stuck in my mind is that I used to buy 315 hp Yanmars all day long for $20K, and before that, 800 hp Detroit JT 8V-92's for $40K.

Last edited by Otseg; 02-16-2016 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:35 AM
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Think about what you sold your boats for at that time.
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:27 AM
  #717  
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The 6LP's are great but they are noisy and a little smoky relative to the new common rail engines. Yanmar needs a common rail inline 6.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Yanmar-...16.m2518.l4276
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Old 02-20-2016, 05:42 AM
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The issue that came up with the inboard stern drive packages is that the mission was to keep the aft end of the boat clear like a sport fisherman, with the engine below the sole.

Because the hull is so easy to push we can have a very high X dimension, meaning the drive is high on the transom. So the engine is low, and the manufactures say no. I have heard that all my life and simply work out a solution. Likely give Jerry at Stainless Marine in N. Miami a call and have a custom riser fabricated.

It may be for another day because we worked out another arrangement at the stern to have (outboard - bait well- walk through - bait well- outboard) across the stern and have the coaming bolster within a distance of 30 " of the transom. My one fishing Apparatus is a YoYo and even I could fight a big one back there.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:13 PM
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Back to Rays boat.

He saw the boat for the the first time this weekend and commented that my photography is deficient. I took it as a compliment.

We located the top guns and whip aerials, rod holders, lighting, storage options and had an opportunity to explain systems. Upholstery fabrics are selected and we already have patterned the boat.

Rays visit coincided with the beginning of another Wife appreciation week, as she is away on business. While we were going over the boat I made the children earn their Pizza. Ray commented that the casting deck was bigger than he thought. I think if you can fit an entire class of second graders up there, its big enough.

Paul Mickey aka "the Wire Guy" has ably manned up to handle our systems design and installation in concert with Ron Muller and Daniel Amador from Electronics Unlimited of Fort Lauderdale. I does boggle my mind that 10% of the completed Cat's dry weight and 10% of the expense is directly related to the entertainment and electronics package.

Deficient console photos should be available shortly.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:36 PM
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I visited Washington NC this past week end to see my boat for the first time
I was impressed
This thing is going to be impressive, the room in this boat due to the construction techniques is incredible
Coming out of a 45' Don Smith I thought I new what a lot of storage was
We should be water testing in a 2-3 weeks stay tuned . No disappointments here.
If your in the market for a big Cat you owe it to your self to check this Compmillennia 39' out
The construction / fit and finish are 1st Class
I believe the performance will raise the Bar beyond most capability's
If you want a serious offshore rig but with a few niceties this is it
Jim will build it your way be it "Wine and Cheese crowd "or serious competitive Tournament fisherman
or somewhere in between you can get it here.
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