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The new compmillennia 39 cat

Old 12-08-2015, 08:25 PM
  #561  
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
Less than Ray's build duration for sure. A great portion of that time was the design decisions. The early negotiations were for a 34' to 35' cat which grew to fit his needs. I worked with a 3D design CAD guy initially to develop the design but struggled to get what I wanted so we went old school and drafted the Cat by hand and then lofted the hull. I really feel that you get a better sense of proportion that way.

Now we have memorialized the entire boat in AUTOCAD and subsequent changes are easy to effect. On the "Drafting board" as we say, are Ray's arrangement, a larger console walk around, Larger console with Tower, a dual console hardtop with head, storage and berths in the hulls, A hard top with trunk cabin with a queen size bunk on the tunnel and full galley, head and air conditioning for week long fishing trips to the Bahamas, and last but not least Jazzman's sex machine with quads.

We have accrued tooling, meaning molds that save production time, including for our fuel tanks but are at the moment in custom mode. It should be 6 months, but perhaps a bit longer for the next one, and less for subsequent or better yet concurrent builds.
Thanks Jim, I think there is going to be a nice 37' Spectre for sale soon...
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:09 AM
  #562  
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Originally Posted by Wishniwasfishn View Post
We are switching to them for next season, they are lighter and put out more power. It's how we are able to run chiller plates and a/c without a genset.
My nickname when I left Miami was "Sparky" because the last thing I did was to catch the ground at my boat yard on fire with 30,000 volts. Less risky dealing with 12 and 24 V DC but when it comes to the electrical we have it engineered and the connections made by the best.

No doubt we will be looking to Lithium Ion in the future. especially after reading the book "Elon Musk: Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future ". It made me feel a little small. What a Guy. The battery technology will be incredible. On one side my Father in law tells me "if you are not on the cutting edge, you are taking up too much room." Of course the other side is "It's the Pioneers that get killed by the Indians"

With Ray's boat I collected most-all of the equipment and bits and pieces for an APU unit that made saltwater slush ice in the fish box's and battery charged too. Saving the big iron's wear and tear for propulsion. Ray has an ice maker on the dock and I don't think makes regular overnight trips so we just went "KISS" with the super insulated boxes.

We allowed for the batteries in the initial weight study, so I was ok with it either way.
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:34 AM
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Pounds is pounds and thank God for pioneers, otherwise we would still be looking at all those ugly cats.
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Old 12-09-2015, 12:29 PM
  #564  
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
My nickname when I left Miami was "Sparky" because the last thing I did was to catch the ground at my boat yard on fire with 30,000 volts. Less risky dealing with 12 and 24 V DC but when it comes to the electrical we have it engineered and the connections made by the best.

No doubt we will be looking to Lithium Ion in the future. especially after reading the book "Elon Musk: Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future ". It made me feel a little small. What a Guy. The battery technology will be incredible. On one side my Father in law tells me "if you are not on the cutting edge, you are taking up too much room." Of course the other side is "It's the Pioneers that get killed by the Indians"

With Ray's boat I collected most-all of the equipment and bits and pieces for an APU unit that made saltwater slush ice in the fish box's and battery charged too. Saving the big iron's wear and tear for propulsion. Ray has an ice maker on the dock and I don't think makes regular overnight trips so we just went "KISS" with the super insulated boxes.

We allowed for the batteries in the initial weight study, so I was ok with it either way.
Google graphene if you think Lithium is cutting edge. They are talking about charging car batteries in less than a minute with that stuff.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:12 PM
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By the way -- I did a little more research on those lithium batteries . The claimed specs are EXTREMELY impressive .

But so is the list price.

I will be very interested to read actual reports from THTers once Wishniwasfishn and a few others get some experience with them.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullshipper View Post
Google graphene if you think Lithium is cutting edge. They are talking about charging car batteries in less than a minute with that stuff.
My wife's job is to research technology and write about it. With her feminine voice she gets hold of an engineer on the phone that is never allowed to talk to anyone and they are thrilled to tell her all about about their secret projects.

Imagine this, For the aircraft industry, seating has been developed that harvests the heat from the passengers bodies to generate electricity to power their entertainment package where they sit. :-)

The downside may be what these new materials will do to the boat builders that cut and grind this new stuff. I had a chance to tag along with her on a tour of the Material Science Lab at Langley and they were all hot for nano particles. I asked our guide, "what happens when you breath that stuff"? They said; "not to worry." I said; "I see, you know I remember that's what they told me about the bags of asbestos fiber we used to mix in with epoxy in the late 60's and 70's"
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by carbidemanfishing View Post
Lithium batteries that size catch on fire last I heard.
Lithium Iron Phosphate is the technology used in current lithium batteries used for starting and house banks. Although not quite as efficient as other versions of Lithium, it is much more stable. We'll be using this in the ArrowCat 42 we're in the process of building. I didn't feel the technology was quite ready on the last two boats we had built (both cats as well). In cats, obviously any time you can save weight, it makes a bigger difference than in the same sized mono-hull. It also makes sense when combining with a DC generator as they be charged at a much faster rate and can cycle down much further (80% vs 50%) than lead acid.
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:29 PM
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Let's see, we are at a oil rig, 250+miles from port,700 gal of fuel,2 bladder transfers,blowing 25, half the people on the boat smoke,it's a MBGFC tournament so we left at midnight, now someone tells me my battery's are going to catch fire??? I wounder why the new boat name is Questionable Judgment!
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:36 PM
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Kevin (Barker Boatworks) Had one on his Carbon 26 catch fire. No more Lithium Ion for him....
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarasota Line X View Post
Kevin (Barker Boatworks) Had one on his Carbon 26 catch fire. No more Lithium Ion for him....
Who was the manufacturer of the battery? That's the same as saying " I didn't like X brand of cats, so all cats suck. I know of boats that have had the brand we are using for several years without an issue.

Now he's going to tell me that Kevin's battery's where the same as ours.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:05 PM
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Carbon fiber never ceases to amaze me some times. It is electrically conductive, even encapsulated in resin. . We build heated molds by running current through a ply of carbon fiber in the laminate. The electrical issue with the battery in that case might, might have been related.
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:07 AM
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More bait prep, seat, battery, storage unit assembly. It gets a built in cooler and we are building a mold for the cap which tops it off and makes it sexy.
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Old 12-10-2015, 10:40 AM
  #573  
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There will be a substantial BHD which takes the transverse shear loads from the T-Top Legs. The battery compartment partitions and insulated cooler walls and tackle center partitions keep every body in line. Ten-Hut!
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
Carbon fiber never ceases to amaze me some times. It is electrically conductive, even encapsulated in resin. . We build heated molds by running current through a ply of carbon fiber in the laminate. The electrical issue with the battery in that case might, might have been related.
I didn't realize that. So in boats with a continuous layer of carbon fiber, can you ground the boat and tie in the anodes using the conductivity of the hull itself? Seems like you could cut your wiring in half for systems on the common ground.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:28 PM
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I can assure you that when you flash your fingers with 440 V it smells like chicken.

I can tell you we had a 177' long piece of carbon fiber we made that someone managed to run 220 V through and it sought ground through one of the buildings steel columns in a big continuous spark.

I saw that same carbon fiber mast stepped in a 151' sailboat in Port Everglades Fl. get hit 7 different times by lightning, but only when there was a cruise ship nearby.

I evaluated damage to a 100' carbon mast that hit the power lines over the New River and the Aluminum sail track was fine but the Stainless steel 1/4" machine screws melted where they were fastened the track and were tapped into the carbon fiber.

These were learned experiences not in a book as you are querying, so I would say try it and let us know how it works for you. :-)
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:10 PM
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While carbon may be conductive, the resin, not so much...

Originally Posted by Texas 17 View Post
I didn't realize that. So in boats with a continuous layer of carbon fiber, can you ground the boat and tie in the anodes using the conductivity of the hull itself? Seems like you could cut your wiring in half for systems on the common ground.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kitebuz View Post
While carbon may be conductive, the resin, not so much...
"It is electrically conductive, even encapsulated in resin."

That was what surprised me.
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Old 12-11-2015, 04:30 AM
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Did you consider using vacuum panels for insulation in the fish boxes rather than thicker insulation.
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:28 AM
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Carbon fiber encapsulated in Resin is no different than a bundle of insulated copper wire.

An electrician friend at the Bertram Yard on the Miami River got a work order to re-wire an Italian yacht in for a refit. The owner thought that because the distribution panel had the labels on the breakers in Italian, you had to change the wires too. He convinced him he just needed an engraved panel in English.

Needless to say the owner was pissed upon delivery when he turned the cabin lights on and the Horn blew, along with thirty or forty other anomalies. It turned out that in replacing the rub rail, the carpenters thought that if a 2" screw was good, a 4" screw was "more better" and the wire harness along the sheer had a rub rail screw poking though it every 8". When you drill into the laminate the fibers are encapsulated but you are cutting into them and exposing fiber.

Proof in fact was a 60' racing sailboat "Hunter's Child" I project managed the construction in the UK. This was 1988 and this 90% carbon fiber boat would be considered state of the art today. Warren Luhrs sent me Hunter's lead electrician to wire it. After we put the boat in the water, he grabbed me and said you got to see this. His meter with one lead on a keel bolt and another on the tapping screw holding a plastic P clip to the hull laminate showed, if I remember correctly .2 of a volt. We got 15 transatlantic crossings and a round the world race over 10 years before the keel fell off. I have to believe from electrolysis.
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:07 AM
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Otseg - I find your stories & anecdotes at least as interesting and entertaining as following your build here - thanks for sharing along both lines. This 39 is looking awesome, and really hoping we get to see her at the Miami show(?)!

My reference to resin with the carbon being less conductive was more about heat. Ancor rates their sleeves to 105c. I think standard epoxy starts to soften well before that temp, which can lead to bigger problems if under load...

That said, I have read about some projects in the auto industry talking about using integrated carbon components as a way to conduct/manage electricity in electric cars.

That 177' mast acting as a 220v lighting rod must have stained some shorts!
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