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Old 06-09-2015, 09:59 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Riptide31 View Post
I would want rounded bottoms on the fishboxes too. It might be ok to make them flat if they are angled for drainage, but otherwise youre going to have some flat spots where it wont drain completely.
Going to have to have a good insulated lid for that box too to take advantage of the 4" foam around it.
Of course they should slope back to the drain but they can be flat bottomed and still do that.

Think cases of beer, flat bottom no problem, rounded bottom broken bottles.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:40 AM   #202
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Beer in the fish box. Possibly on a Bahamas trip
For most trips the twin 80 qt transom coolers and the 150qt tackle station cooler will do
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:15 PM   #203
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Of course they should slope back to the drain but they can be flat bottomed and still do that.

Think cases of beer, flat bottom no problem, rounded bottom broken bottles.
Think kegs, round bottom better! Not so good for square grouper.

Really not disagreeing, but I believed I was tasked to go max volume.
Because of the hull dead rise, a rectangular flat bottom would have to be raised. to clear the hull. I may very well add a plant to the mold to provide a ledge for a flat to accept a floor if ever wanted. How wide is a case of beer?

The same round configuration on the 22 and 27. Someone asked me if you could sleep in the box, and I took a nap over lunch in one. The rounded bottom is hammock like, and comfy!
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:44 PM   #204
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That's a great idea for a boat - a built-in kegerator! Then you don't have to worry about cans or bottles and don't need as much ice.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:55 PM   #205
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As you can tell, I am a big economy freak. But for the life of me, I just cant see this big ass boat that is 12' wide and 39' long running much over 60mph with the engines spec'd. Perhaps there is is secret sauce we don't know about.. I love the build and the carbon fiber composites should yield a very light and stiff boat. Windage seems to be your biggest obstacle...

Best of luck,
MPG
If you get this hull up to 60 mph the amount of lift generated would astonish you. Get it up to 160 mph and it would FLY... as in possibly over backwards as some offshore cats have done.

Its all about PHYSICS.....
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:48 PM   #206
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Probably a dumb question, but from a non-boat builder's perspective, while the weight saving (strength maintaining) techniques seem advanced, this concept is strived for by most top tier builders. After all, who doesn't want a fast, fuel efficient and strong hull? Are these techniques/materials being used really that revolutionary and unknown to the building community at large? Or is just too cost prohibitive to find adequate buyers to reproduce often? Considering Egret boats, I'm thinking it has more to do with the latter.

Needless to say, when it's pulled off you'll find buyers to fill the niche regardless of cost. Impressive thread, thanks for the time and explanation!
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:41 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by AlreadyThere View Post
Probably a dumb question, but from a non-boat builder's perspective, while the weight saving (strength maintaining) techniques seem advanced, this concept is strived for by most top tier builders. After all, who doesn't want a fast, fuel efficient and strong hull? Are these techniques/materials being used really that revolutionary and unknown to the building community at large? Or is just too cost prohibitive to find adequate buyers to reproduce often? Considering Egret boats, I'm thinking it has more to do with the latter.

Needless to say, when it's pulled off you'll find buyers to fill the niche regardless of cost. Impressive thread, thanks for the time and explanation!
Life was simpler when we got our materials from the forest. I am not Mother Nature, but sometimes I feel like a Mother to the boat builders I employ. Red Davis, early mentor of mine, crossed the Atlantic under sail on a square rigger 12 times before he was 21 and for the remainder of his career (except for a stint Rum Running for Bill McCoy) was a Boat Builder at the leading edge of technology. He said "you know, I was born in 1901, and I lived for mans first flight and his first walk on the moon".

I brought him out to Gougeon's in the early '70's and he drew plans for home builders for them and was there to see us bond, not fasten boats together. What I learned was "if you are not on the leading edge, you're taking up too much room". Then again another friend and Boat Builder I respect enormously counsels, "Its the Pioneers that get shot by the Indians"

Last edited by Otseg; 06-10-2015 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:30 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Otseg View Post
Life was simpler when we got our materials from the forest. I am not Mother Nature, but sometimes I feel like a Mother to the boat builders I employ. Red Davis, early mentor of mine, crossed the Atlantic under sail on a square rigger 12 times before he was 21 and for the remainder of his career (except for a stint Rum Running for Bill McCoy) was a Boat Builder at the leading edge of technology. He said "you know, I was born in 1901, and I lived for mans first flight and his first walk on the moon".

I brought him out to Gougeon's in the early '70's and he drew plans for home builders for them and was there to see us bond, not fasten boats together. What I learned was "if you are not on the leading edge, you're taking up too much room". Then again another friend and Boat Builder I respect enormously counsels, "Its the Pioneers that get shot by the Indians"
Great posts and quotes. That Boat plane was classic too.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:47 AM   #209
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Cool stuff! At a previous coatings job, I had experience working with individuals painting world class racing sailboats. (No bottom paint on those bad boys!) They spec out their paintjobs and want to know how much each coat of primer and paint will weigh. Every last ounce matters on those boats. It's cool to see that mindset in my boats of choice: big, high horsepower center consoles.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:24 PM   #210
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Gone are the days when best practice was sufficient to design fuel tanks. 600 fuel tanks over 20 years in the Egret boats without a failure does not qualify you to design tanks in 2015.

Years ago, the difference between a $20,000 /yr. engineer and a $30,000 /yr. engineer was a
set of colored pencils.

That much has not changed.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:34 PM   #211
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Jim, are you going the pressurized system and Blue Skies fittings or the carbon canister route?

I prefer the pressurized system but we have had some really long lead times on tanks recently.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:02 PM   #212
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Very interesting thread. Wealth of information for sure and very experienced builder
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:05 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Tideline Boats View Post
Jim, are you going the pressurized system and Blue Skies fittings or the carbon canister route?

I prefer the pressurized system but we have had some really long lead times on tanks recently.
Pressurized and BluSkies system. Less weight and more finesse. Our biggest gains will be in the total weight of the fuel system, 400 gallons usable, with 7% additional volume to make the EPA happy. With a substantial up-front investment in engineering and tooling, my expectation is that we save 300 lbs.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:05 PM   #214
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Great info thanks for sharing
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:44 AM   #215
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Jiminy Christmas. That's a lot of engineering for a fuel tank in a non-combat environment. At what point do you just go to an ATL bladder tank and say "screw it"?
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:59 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Tideline Boats View Post
Jim, are you going the pressurized system and Blue Skies fittings or the carbon canister route?

I prefer the pressurized system but we have had some really long lead times on tanks recently.
The fuel tank is pressurized?
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:42 AM   #217
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Jiminy Christmas. That's a lot of engineering for a fuel tank in a non-combat environment. At what point do you just go to an ATL bladder tank and say "screw it"?
They are Mil Spec. Designed to drop them full, 10 times from 10 feet onto concrete.

Ethanol is a very aggressive solvent so we are going for seamless construction. After our initial investment, subsequent tank sets will be more economical.

I have limited experience with the ATL bladder tanks. 25 years ago I did tooling and parts for a 55' sport boat with 4 big blocks that ran 75 mph. We made a compartment for a huge ATL tank. I heard later that the boat had made a few profitable "trips" from Africa to Italy, and then scuttled. Not a chance to test longevity. My impression, but not first hand knowledge was that there was a service life to bladder tanks, but a long time more than one or two trips I am sure! :-) No doubt there would be a considerable weight saving. Its worth looking into.

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The fuel tank is pressurized?
Its a choice of either a pressure system or vent thru a carbon canister. That's the regulations after 2012 we must follow.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:59 AM   #218
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They are Mil Spec. Designed to drop them full, 10 times from 10 feet onto concrete.

Ethanol is a very aggressive solvent so we are going for seamless construction. After our initial investment, subsequent tank sets will be more economical.

I have limited experience with the ATL bladder tanks. 25 years ago I did tooling and parts for a 55' sport boat with 4 big blocks that ran 75 mph. We made a compartment for a huge ATL tank. I heard later that the boat had made a few profitable "trips" from Africa to Italy, and then scuttled. Not a chance to test longevity. My impression, but not first hand knowledge was that there was a service life to bladder tanks, but a long time more than one or two trips I am sure! :-) No doubt there would be a considerable weight saving. Its worth looking into.



Its a choice of either a pressure system or vent thru a carbon canister. That's the regulations after 2012 we must follow.
I knew about the vent canister but I didn't know USCG let the pressurized system fly.

If I were getting a new boat built I would really want which ever system was easier to remove and convert back to the old way.
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:35 PM   #219
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Jim, an ignorant question here.

How is the gealcoat applied for boats to come out of the mold already gelcoated? is it sprayed on the mold before laying the fiber glass?
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:35 PM   #220
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You got me going on the ATL tanks.. Weight saving could be substantial.

I don't mind spending money to save weight but there are some things to consider which the manufacturer discussed with me today.

1. Cost would be twice an aluminum tank.
2. Service life before replacement 8-10 yrs.
3. They are not EPA compliment for a production boat and not offered.
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