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Who pays - Big Wave Kicked Up By Cargo Ship Hits State Ferry

Old 05-15-2013, 04:40 PM
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Default Who pays - Big Wave Kicked Up By Cargo Ship Hits State Ferry

Big Wave Kicked Up By Cargo Ship Hits State Ferry

The U.S. Coast Guard is investigating an incident involving the Southport-Fort Fisher Ferry that resulted in a 10-foot wave crashing onto the deck, damaging some cars.
A 925-foot Liberian cargo ship created the wave that struck the ferry Tuesday.
Ferry Director Harold Thomas says the ferry was returning to Fort Fisher from Southport when the Hanjin Pretoria left the Port of Wilmington and created the wave. The rushing water moved vehicles.
A Coast Guard spokesman says at least one person reported an injury.



Open and shut case?

Who pays.

Ship owners?
The state
The car owners insurance
No one is liable
Old 05-15-2013, 04:44 PM
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I would think the ships owner.
Old 05-15-2013, 04:47 PM
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You are responsible for your wake.
Old 05-15-2013, 05:04 PM
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No one will ever know.

Any and all claims, cognizable under maritime law, must first pass through the Liberian haggling and barter system before becoming actionable, thus making any recovery for the victims quite speculative, akin to a passenger of Carnival Cruise Lines making a claim under Florida law.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:05 PM
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Owners contact their insurance co. and insurance pays. It's up to the insurance co. if they want to pursue it
Old 05-15-2013, 06:10 PM
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Do these ships really have a 10 ft wake. I've passed pretty close to some while out fishing and there was not that much wake.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sac56fire View Post
Owners contact their insurance co. and insurance pays. It's up to the insurance co. if they want to pursue it
Nice - unless you don't have comprehensive insurance. Even so who pays my deductible? Why is it always go after your own insurance company first? Why raise my rates when I had nothing to do with it?
Old 05-15-2013, 06:40 PM
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I'm sure the Liberian Justice Dept. will get on this right away.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:47 PM
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Whoever has insurance they will have to pay the deductible, their insurance will fix, and premiums will go up. If they didn't have insurance government will pay and car will be good as new.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:48 PM
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A Boeing 777 is on final approach for Miami International air port.

A Gulfstream 650 landing behind him gets into the wake turbulence of the B777. The Gulfstream rolls up side down and then plummets into a now smoking hole in the ground.

Is the Boeing at fault?
Old 05-15-2013, 06:51 PM
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That's why all these ships are registered in foreign sh*t bag countries so they can get away with everything.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ndb8fxe View Post
Do these ships really have a 10 ft wake. I've passed pretty close to some while out fishing and there was not that much wake.
They can throw quite a wake when they are running near max speed. I was running in one afternoon in nearly smooth seas. I wasn't paying close enough attention and suddenly the boat went airborn at 40mph after hitting a freighter wake. I will never know how the engines didnt blow. We were out of the water for a while
Old 05-15-2013, 06:52 PM
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There is a "slight exaggeration" to the ten foot wake.

For starters, Wilmington and the Cape Fear river are shallow and where the ferry operates is only on a short straight away. No pilot in there right mind would bring the ship up to speed enough to create a 10' wake in that area. Between the turns, bank suction, squat, current effects and general handling of any given ship, this never happened.

Vehicles may have gotten splashed, but it wasn't from a 10' wake and there isn't any damage.

Sounds like the vehicle owners ins. Is fixing to get a phone call.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jethro1 View Post
A Boeing 777 is on final approach for Miami International air port.

A Gulfstream 650 landing behind him gets into the wake turbulence of the B777. The Gulfstream rolls up side down and then plummets into a now smoking hole in the ground.

Is the Boeing at fault?
Yes

The trip 7 should have kept it under 6mph. Clearly in a no wake zone.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jethro1 View Post
A Boeing 777 is on final approach for Miami International air port.

A Gulfstream 650 landing behind him gets into the wake turbulence of the B777. The Gulfstream rolls up side down and then plummets into a now smoking hole in the ground.

Is the Boeing at fault?
777 can't slow down on final without falling out of the sky...not a good comparison.

How about a super stallion landing on a ramp with a bunch of 152's not tied down, when they could have just taxied in....
Old 05-15-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jethro1 View Post
A Boeing 777 is on final approach for Miami International air port.

A Gulfstream 650 landing behind him gets into the wake turbulence of the B777. The Gulfstream rolls up side down and then plummets into a now smoking hole in the ground.

Is the Boeing at fault?
Given the limited information, ATC would be at fault for failing to maintain separation.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tunatango123 View Post
You are responsible for your wake.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:05 PM
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How about the Cape Fear pilot had command if they were in the river. The Captain is still responsible , but the ship was under the orders of the pilot.

I to have a hard time believing there was a 10' wake, as they would have to have a huge speed on to make that much wake.

More than likely it was the water being displaced by the ship. more so than a " wake"
But it is still dangerous.

You have a 60 to 70 thousand ton ship moving, all that water has to go somewhere, and in restricted areas like a river, it can get hinky.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:21 PM
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I think it's called subrogation on the part of the insured vechile owners. This will be up to the insurance companies. The people on the Ferry should be made whole.

Subrogation is the legal doctrine whereby one person takes over the rights or remedies of another against a third party.[1] Rights of subrogation can arise two different ways: either automatically as a matter of law, or by agreement as part of a contract.[2] Subrogation by contract most commonly arises in contracts of insurance. Subrogation as a matter of law is an equitable doctrine, and forms part of a wider body of law known as unjust enrichment. The two most common areas where subrogation is relevant are insurance and sureties. In each case, the basic premise is that where one person (i.e. typically an insurer or a guarantor) makes a payment on an obligation which, in law, is the primary responsibility of another party, then the person making the payment is subrogated to the claims of the person to whom they made the payment with respect to any claims or remedies which are exercisable against the primarily responsible party. For example, if a car owner has collision insurance [3] on their car and the car is damaged by a negligent third party, if the car owner elects to claim under his insurance policy, then any claims which the car owner had against the negligent party will pass to the insurance company in countries which recognise the doctrine. Similarly, if a father loan guarantee guarantees the debts of his son to the bank (i.e. a contract of suretyship), and the bank elects to call upon the guarantee rather than claiming against the son directly, then if the father pays out on the guarantee, he will become subrogated to the bank's claims against the son.
The doctrine of subrogation can also pass proprietary rights, i.e. a security interest or claim to ownership of goods. If a work of art is stolen, and the insurance company pays out under a policy of insurance to the owner, if the art is later recovered, then legally it will belong the insurance company under rights of subrogation. Similarly, if a ship is insured and then sinks, any rights of salve will pass to the insurer if the claim is paid out as a total loss. If a guarantee is paid out by a guarantor, but the bank also held a mortgage over the debtor's home, then the guarantor will be subrogated to the bank's rights as a mortgagee with respect to the debtor's home.
In the most common areas where subrogation arises as a matter of law, it will also commonly be regulated in the terms of the relevant contract. For example, in a contract of guarantee, the guarantee will often provide that the guarantor either waives their right of subrogation, or agrees not to exercise it unless the bank has completely been paid in full. In a contract of insurance, in addition to right of subrogation at law, there will often be a contractual right of subrogation which will be bolstered by the insured party agreeing that they will provide all necessary assistance to the insurance company in pursuing any subrogated claims.
Subrogation is sometimes misunderstood by lay people and criticised on the basis that payment under an insurance claim is simply a right based upon their payments of insurance premia, and a belief that they should also retain a right to exercise any claims arising from the insured event. However, an insurance contract is a contract of indemnity, and to allow a party to receive insurance proceeds and claim against third parties would mean that they might recover more than their total loss. Because subrogation operates to prevent such over-recovery, it is considered to form part of the general law of unjust enrichment (i.e. preventing a party by being unjustly enriched by pursuing a claim for a loss in respect of which they have already been indemnified).
Subrogation is an equitable remedy and is subject to all the usual limitations that apply to equitable remedies.
Although the basic concept is relatively straightforward, subrogation is considered[by whom?] to be a highly technical area of the law.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pez Vela View Post
No one will ever know.

Any and all claims, cognizable under maritime law, must first pass through the Liberian haggling and barter system before becoming actionable, thus making any recovery for the victims quite speculative, akin to a passenger of Carnival Cruise Lines making a claim under Florida law.
No, the reason a passenger of Carnival must sue in Fla is because that's what the contract says on the back of the ticket he buys. That is called the forum selection clause.

There is no contract between the ferry and the cargo ship and thus no forum selection clause. Damage sustained in US waters is most likely under the jurisdiction of US courts, subject to our maritime law.

That ship is flagged Liberian and owned by Hanjin which is prob a Chinese or Korean company. Nobody flags a cargo ship in the US, not even US companies.




Most insurance policies give the insurer the right to subrogate against the tortfeasor in exchange for the payment of the claim. You don't get to file an insurance claim, get paid, then go sue a guy who hits you and get paid twice for one accident. The guy pays your insurance.

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