Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > The Boating Forum
Reload this Page >

Lights out boardings/searches - 17 boats

Notices

Lights out boardings/searches - 17 boats

Old 10-26-2011, 10:17 AM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: mass/Point Judith, RI dockage
Posts: 11,819
Default Lights out boardings/searches - 17 boats

Ok, here is one to boil your blood. Hat tip to The Marine Installers Rant on this one: http://themarineinstallersrant.blogs...ing-field.html

Sunday, February 7th 2010 The "Longboat Key News"


"According to Longboat Key Police, there was a “Lights Out” boarding of all the boats anchored between Cortez and the south end of Longboat Key recently. Seventeen boats were boarded by the Longboat Police, Bradenton Beach Police, the Coast Guard as well as the Florida Department of Environmental Protection officers and Florida Fish and Wildlife officers, all checking for drugs, outstanding warrants, proper licenses, and proper handling of sewage." (Editors note: US Customs officers were also involved)

Apparently nothing of magnitude was found during the raid, at least that was noteworthy in police reports, or the press. How much fun would that have been for a transient cruiser passing through to have assorted armed law enforcement agencies rooting through your vessel in the middle of the night.
So again we have multiple agencies, including the customs service, boarding and actively searching boats. This time, EVERY boat anchored up in a particular cove, after dark.

No doubt they were highly undesirable elements who seem to have been anchored up and sleeping quietly. Nothing was found btw.

Ok, so how is this defensible IN ANY WAY? I'd love to hear the law and order nuts take this one on.

Would any of you be happy if this were done on your street? Just asking.
gerg is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 10:32 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Treasure Island, FL
Posts: 1,196
Default

I'm going to hate myself for responding to this...


Would I like it... NO
Do I think it's necessary....NO
Would I be happy if I was one of the vessels boarded... NO
Is there anything justifiable about what took place... NO


With that said.... EVERY VESSEL IN US WATERS CAN BE BOARDED AND SEARCHED WITHOUT CAUSE/WARRANTS, ETC.

Please see the Laws of the First & Second Congresses of the US, passed into US LAW in August of 1790, which states:

“That it shall be lawful for all collectors, naval officers,
surveyors, inspectors, and the officers of the revenue
cutters ... to go on board of ships or vessels in any part
of the United States, or within four leagues of the coast
thereof, if bound to the United States, whether in or out
of their respective districts, for the purposes of demanding the manifests aforesaid, and of examining
and searching the said ships or vessels; and the said officers respectively shall have free access to the cabin,
and every other part of a ship or vessel. ...”
This was later adapted to be part of the USCG Manifest, giving them the right to search/inspect/board.

It's sort of something we as boaters have to be tolerant of. Yes, everyone wants to fight it, and many have tried unsuccessfully.

Flame away.....
Beefer is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 10:44 AM
  #3  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
ScarabChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dania Beach, FL
Posts: 28,075
Default

Just because they can doesn't mean they should.

This is what makes honest citizens lose respect for law enforcement.
ScarabChris is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 10:45 AM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: mass/Point Judith, RI dockage
Posts: 11,819
Default

Yes, I know about the law of 1790. It's in direct violation of something called the constitution, but nobody seems to be overly concerned with that.

But seriously, I do know the law exists. But that in no way justifies using it like a bludgeon on law abiding citizens.

We need new laws to protect our rights it appears. But even that is another issue.

People should be outraged at these actions. They should let law enforcement know they aren't supported when they do this.

Just mpo.
gerg is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:18 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,979
Default

Originally Posted by gerg View Post
Ok, here is one to boil your blood. Hat tip to The Marine Installers Rant on this one: http://themarineinstallersrant.blogs...ing-field.html



So again we have multiple agencies, including the customs service, boarding and actively searching boats. This time, EVERY boat anchored up in a particular cove, after dark.

No doubt they were highly undesirable elements who seem to have been anchored up and sleeping quietly. Nothing was found btw.

Ok, so how is this defensible IN ANY WAY? I'd love to hear the law and order nuts take this one on.

Would any of you be happy if this were done on your street? Just asking.
I had been spending alot of time at the Donzi plant in Sarasota/Bradenton and recall a couple years ago the practice began in the Marina Jacks area in Sarasota. I dont recall the afterdark activity, however as I remember it the idea was to discourage what the city felt was less than a desired liveaboard community in a rather upscale area. So, the inspections began, safety equipment, up to date registrations, sanitation, that kind of thing.
I suspect it's the same idea in the Cortez area.
I do wonder though, as you do also, the need for the afterdark Gestapo tactics? I dont know why same cant be done during daylight and less harrassing in nature?
Fact is though, as to citizen outrage, my bet is thet were probobly reacting to citzen complaints.
Not saying I agree to it.
I dont imagine any seven figure yachts were included in the raids.
mike carrigan is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:23 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,938
Default

if they didn't search them boats and terrorist where hiding out with a bomb you guys would think differently about that opinion. I say search away I am not hiding nothing so no problems. We live in a different world after 9-11 and I am all for what they are doing to stop something from happening again. If they stop 1 person or group 3 years of search is well worth it
id-10-t is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:35 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Juneau, AK
Posts: 196
Default

Originally Posted by mike carrigan View Post
I had been spending alot of time at the Donzi plant in Sarasota/Bradenton and recall a couple years ago the practice began in the Marina Jacks area in Sarasota. I dont recall the afterdark activity, however as I remember it the idea was to discourage what the city felt was less than a desired liveaboard community in a rather upscale area. So, the inspections began, safety equipment, up to date registrations, sanitation, that kind of thing.
I suspect it's the same idea in the Cortez area.
I do wonder though, as you do also, the need for the afterdark Gestapo tactics? I dont know why same cant be done during daylight and less harrassing in nature?
Fact is though, as to citizen outrage, my bet is thet were probobly reacting to citzen complaints.
Not saying I agree to it.
I dont imagine any seven figure yachts were included in the raids.
That's what it sounds like according to the original article. I agree that this could/should have been done during daylight hours, but who honestly knows what a 'lights out' boarding is.

Here is the original article in its entirety.

Friday, February 19th, 2010 | Posted by Longboat Key News

Changes coming to offshore mooring ordinance

MELISSA REID
Staff Writer
mreid@lbknews.com

Police Chief Al Hogle informed the Town Commission at this week’s workshop that the police are working with the town attorney to make some changes to the town’s mooring ordinance, which would tighten regulations about how long boaters can anchor offshore.

“We are coming up with an ordinance to address mooring in town water over 72 hours. We have an ordinance, but we have some ability to regulate anchoring. We are trying to keep it very simple,” said Hogle.

Town Attorney David Persson said, “The state has preempted us from regulating live-aboards. This ordinance puts us in compliance with state ordinance.”

Town Manager Bruce St. Denis says that the state law supercedes the Town’s ordinances, and although the town has more restrictions on mooring unoccupied boats and live-aboards, they cannot apply them due to the more liberal state law.

At a Feb. 3 Village Association meeting, residents discussed the generally undesired visitors known as ‘live-aboards.’ Live-aboards referring to people who drop anchor offshore and live on their boats, staying at any particular location for an indeterminate amount of time. The boats that are currently moored offshore of the Mar Vista Restaurant, according to Drake, have been there since May 2009.

Some residents have expressed concerns over the anchoring of boats off the village waters, in particular concern for the environment due to the fact that people living on the boats empty their septic into the local waters.

According to Longboat Key Police, there was a ‘Lights Out’ boarding of all the boats anchored between Cortez and the south end of Longboat Key recently. Seventeen boats were boarded by the Longboat Police, Bradenton Beach Police, the Coast Guard as well as the Florida Department of Environmental Protection officers and Florida Fish and Wildlife officers, all checking for drugs, outstanding warrants, proper licenses, and proper handling of sewage.

Deputy Chief Martin Sharkey said people on the boats believe they have the right to drop anchor and live in state waters wherever they want. Therefore the town is trying to come up with some useable ordinance that everyone can all live by. According to Sharkey, boats are currently allowed to drop anchor within 300 feet of the shoreline.

Commission gave consensus to move forward with making adjustments to the ordinance.
ak_j is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:37 AM
  #8  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
ScarabChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dania Beach, FL
Posts: 28,075
Default

Originally Posted by id-10-t View Post
if they didn't search them boats and terrorist where hiding out with a bomb you guys would think differently about that opinion. I say search away I am not hiding nothing so no problems. We live in a different world after 9-11 and I am all for what they are doing to stop something from happening again. If they stop 1 person or group 3 years of search is well worth it
By your theory they should be kicking in the door in every house in America, and at night while we sleep. Your thoughts might change if you and your family were sleeping sound in your bed and were rudely awaken by the police kicking in your door and tossing your house for no other reason then they are looking for terrorists.


This indecent has nothing to do with homeland security. Like someone said above it was most likely cracking down on derelict boats at anchor with people living on them. Doing the night searching was probably for the element of surprise. They might have got a few more crack addicts and drug charges by doing this at night.
ScarabChris is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:47 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Juneau, AK
Posts: 196
Default

Originally Posted by ScarabChris View Post
By your theory they should be kicking in the door in every house in America, and at night while we sleep. Your thoughts might change if you and your family were sleeping sound in your bed and were rudely awaken by the police kicking in your door and tossing your house for no other reason then they are looking for terrorists.


This indecent has nothing to do with homeland security. Like someone said above it was most likely cracking down on derelict boats at anchor with people living on them. Doing the night searching was probably for the element of surprise. They might have got a few more crack addicts and drug charges by doing this at night.
Perhaps it was done because that would be when most of the occupants would be "home".

The term 'lights out' boarding is pretty vague and doesn't necessarily mean a swat team showing up at 2:00 AM, although I will admit it's the first picture that pops into my mind.

They could have done a 'lights out' boarding at 8:00AM here
ak_j is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:52 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Seaside Park, NJ
Posts: 2,467
Default

glad they are searching boats............YES
Am i sad that they are SOOOO stupid as to search recreational vessels anchored up at night on a cove thinking they may be drug runners......................YES
Chiefsurfer is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:00 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pensacola
Posts: 2,122
Default

Could be a suicide mission to conduct "lights out" boardings if they also do so silently and without announcing their intentions, etc.
DoubleO7 is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:03 PM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: mass/Point Judith, RI dockage
Posts: 11,819
Default

If what Mike and the article said is part of the story, it's even worse.

They are harrassing boaters with night time searches for no other purpose than to annoy and intimidate.

Is this still america?

As for the trolls saying to search everyone everywhere, get a life. It's kind of a pathetic attempt to get people upset.
gerg is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:17 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,938
Default

Originally Posted by ScarabChris View Post
By your theory they should be kicking in the door in every house in America, and at night while we sleep. Your thoughts might change if you and your family were sleeping sound in your bed and were rudely awaken by the police kicking in your door and tossing your house for no other reason then they are looking for terrorists.


This indecent has nothing to do with homeland security. Like someone said above it was most likely cracking down on derelict boats at anchor with people living on them. Doing the night searching was probably for the element of surprise. They might have got a few more crack addicts and drug charges by doing this at night.
but you have to have HLS with you . While I was working in Boca chica at the navy base quite a few years ago. That reel cool black helicopter thats stored inside the hanger that has nothing to do with the navy , and that multi million dollar blacked out boat and it following of ribs. They would come in once a week with a bunch of people and drugs from florida waters . You would be surprised whats sitting just off the land in the florida keys in state waters. Quite a few of them derelict boats were for drug storage while the big shots are looking in the distance on surveillance . If it happens down there it can happen in long boat key and bradenton.
id-10-t is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:20 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,938
Default

Originally Posted by gerg View Post
If what Mike and the article said is part of the story, it's even worse.

.
There is more to the story then is wrote, one persons view
id-10-t is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:26 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,979
Default

Originally Posted by id-10-t View Post
but you have to have HLS with you . While I was working in Boca chica at the navy base quite a few years ago. That reel cool black helicopter thats stored inside the hanger that has nothing to do with the navy , and that multi million dollar blacked out boat and it following of ribs. They would come in once a week with a bunch of people and drugs from florida waters . You would be surprised whats sitting just off the land in the florida keys in state waters. Quite a few of them derelict boats were for drug storage while the big shots are looking in the distance on surveillance . If it happens down there it can happen in long boat key and bradenton.
I am down here.
I'm in Tavernier and running boats in the keys all the time.
Look, it's a real stretch to compare.
The article itself, the very words of law enforcement, clearly show the intent.
No one was looking for terrorists, any meaningful drug activity, bombs, missles, any threat to homeland security, it was legal harrassement due to the complaints of residents.
The law clearly permits it, however masking it in any light other than the obvious is a real reach.
mike carrigan is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:27 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 26 46' 18.72"N 80 02' 47.34"W
Posts: 2,757
Default

You board my boat while I'm sleeping on it and you very possibly would get shot!
I have to imagine that prior to boarding, they made some form of announcement.
Would you want to be the first officer boarding a dark boat in the middle of the night without announcing your intentions?
Cmann is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:43 PM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brookhaven, LI, NY
Posts: 15,755
Default

When they come up to your boat, just flip your dark color'd hoodie up, and run around frantically yelling "HUT, HUT, HUT..... HUT HUT HUT...." they will assume your part of the swap team!!
Birdman is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 12:50 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,979
Default

Originally Posted by Birdman View Post
When they come up to your boat, just flip your dark color'd hoodie up, and run around frantically yelling "HUT, HUT, HUT..... HUT HUT HUT...." they will assume your part of the swap team!!
Actually, I believe it's, GO, GO, GO, GO
mike carrigan is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:03 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 299
Default

Originally Posted by DoubleO7 View Post
Could be a suicide mission to conduct "lights out" boardings if they also do so silently and without announcing their intentions, etc.
Agreed, this is why no knocks and this kind of thing are very dangerous!

If they haven't properly identified themselves to me or convinced me they are who they say they are then there's not a chance in hell they are getting on board. One day someone will open fire on these guys and it will turn out very badly.
ziess21 is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 01:11 PM
  #20  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pensacola, Fl
Posts: 11,241
Default

The Midnight, lights out boarding is nothing new. I was running up the ICW in 1983, and due to the 7 foot draft of my vessel, I had to anchor after dark in Little River Inlet NC. At about 1 AM my wife awoke me and said that we were being boarded. Yep, a CG boarding crew came aboard and searched the boat. Reason was that our boat (62 feet long) fit the "profile" of a drug running boat. It was a bit inconvenient, and I was a bit pissed off, since there were many local fishing boats running in and out of the inlet with improper anchor lights--and never stopped. But it goes with the territory.
thataway is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread