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Bigger Honda's

Old 12-02-2008, 07:55 PM
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Dont forget that the car engines produce the power they do choked down by catalytic converters and other associated EPA crap. Although there are standards for boat engines, they dont needs cats...yet. Boat engines dont even have air filters.
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:09 AM
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conehead39 - 12/2/2008 11:25 PMWe be talking about them Big Honda outboards,, see title "Re:Bigger Hondas."Now from the official Honda Marine web site.225HP2nd paragraph.... Based on Honda's world -renowned Odyssey engine ...........i am not saying it is not good. honda did a good job marinizing it.http://www.honda-marine.com/modelDetail.aspx?modelGroup=BF225Don't have a clue where the 2 hp Honda came from , nor do I care..
They have no plans for a V8 in cars so we will not see a V8 Honda outboard.
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:53 AM
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Mr. Demeanor - 12/2/2008 10:55 PM

Boat engines dont even have air filters.

V's do....
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:00 AM
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Not enough market for it. If there was a large enough market, they would be in it. They have most certainly looked into the higher hp market and smart people with the marine division of Honda have certainly played with the thought. To assume that they have not looked into it would be crazy.

As much as we alway look for the highest hp engines as a status/symbol of innovation, I would bet that the market for 250hp+ engines is not as big as we image it to be.

The 25hp-115hp market seems like the bread and butter for the OB industry. We always look at the coast and relate what we see but in Iowa, Kansas, and every other land locked state, a small lake has hundreds of 9.9hp-50hp motors on aluminum boats.

For Honda to come up with a redesigned engine over 275hp, for the 700-800 units they would see each year would not make sense.

Just my 2 cents. I would love to see them tweak the 225hp engine to 250hp though. I theorize that they have played with this thought but maybe it hurt reliability which is what they are know for.

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Old 12-03-2008, 08:53 PM
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I agree with Captbone. I sell Honda's and suzuki's. My Suzuki sales rep says that I sold the most DF300's for repowers (I don't sell new boats) in California this last year, and I only sold 8. I sell a lot more Honda 150 and 225's than big Suzuki's.
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:48 PM
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ttt
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:50 PM
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redseacraft - 11/26/2008 4:23 AM

Does the 225 have VTEC? I believe they could just add some larger cams to produce 250hp without having to reengineer everything. Would it provide a good return on investment??? Doubtfull.

I have an NSX and it's over 15 years old. I cannot pull up to a stoplight without someone at least glancing over or giving me the thumbs up. Best part is I can own an "exotic" and still get a 34.95 oil change!

Simplicity rules.
Same here...I drive a 7 year old viper and am always getting a good thumbs up. Exotic looks/performance but the simplicity of a large displacement motor easy enough for any shadtree mechanic to work on... Now if we could only package a viper motor into an outboard...
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:27 PM
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OK, I had a chance to talk to my regional Honda sales rep, and here is what he said. The next new engine you will see from Honda is a new 60hp (and it may or may not be made into a 75). Following that, they will probably be introducing a new 115 that is more in line weight-wise with the other manu's. As far as a bigger motor is concerned, he didn't have a clue.
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:00 AM
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Honda just announced they are getting out of Formula 1 racing completely [saving them $294 million]. Also laying off temporary workers [initially] in it's auto and motorcycle plants, cut other jobs in Britain and Japan, and reduced car production by 140,000. I think that it's unlikely that any small volume motors like big outboards will be released until the world economy improves.

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Old 12-05-2008, 07:54 AM
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Honda can/does build a high HP (650), mid range torque designed, 3.5l V8 that could be de-tuned for marine use. Honda can build any engine... better than just about anyone else.

Some stats:


--A 2008-spec Honda Indy V8Since the IRL has only one engine manufacturer, that manufacturer concentrates on minimizing engine failure and minimizing costs instead of defeating rivals. The engines have proven themselves to be quite durable -- there have been no catastrophic engine failures at Indy for the past 2 years, which also lowers the number of crashes. Most of the engines, including those used for the Indy 500, are used for multiple races and are intended to last 1,200 miles (1,931 kilometers) between rebuilds.[11] The Honda motors are only available via lease arrangement from Honda, which costs approximately $US 2.9 million per season per car. Honda techs travel with the series, as well as attending all IRL team testing sessions. Virtually all teams like the current arrangement.[12]

IRL engines are rev-limited to 10,300 rpm and produce approximately 650 hp. The valve train is a dual overhead camshaft configuration with four valves per cylinder (As in Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters). The crankshaft is made of alloy steel, with five main bearing caps. The pistons are forged aluminum alloy, while the connecting rods are machined alloy steel. The electronic engine management system is supplied by Motorola, firing a CDI ignition system. The engine lubrication is a dry sump type, cooled by a single water pump.


----Honda Indy V8 (HI7R) racing engine, recorded a total of 166,608 miles with just a single in-race engine failure--

----And for the second year in a row - and the only two times in '500' history - there was not a single engine-related retirement in the event.----

Turn that sucker on its side & put a cowl on it... look out.


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Old 12-05-2008, 06:31 PM
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A follow on to the Honda 3.5 L V6 is the MDX, Accura 3.7L.
It developes 300 HP at ~6300 rpm and 275 ft lbs @ 5000.
11:1 compression ratio probably means prem fuel.
Maybe they could get 275 HP in marine heavy load use.
Until Honda/Accura installs a V8 in their upper echelon cars or better yet a new large Truck competing against Tundras, Silverado,big Fords and Dodge,then you may see it maranized.

It is not they can't do, it but is it financially acceptable or logical.
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:05 AM
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I just came back from the Baja, a very isolated place.
what was on the back of every second panga, Honda.
They don't serve the rock and roll crowd, but if you are ever lucky enough to have a pair on your boat, your a happy man!!
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Old 12-06-2008, 05:22 PM
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Thanks Honda Dude. I guess it will be a while before the 225 is exceeded in horsepower. I am sorry to read about Honda pulling out of Formula 1; I was looking forward to the day they upended Ferrari; Mercedes; BMW....I guess it's going to be a while. I'll have to make sure whatever boat I end up with will work with the 225. I was hoping to avoid twins on the stern on a boat in the 26 ft range and that's going to be tough.

Brian
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:31 PM
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Why is that going to be tough? That's what I have on my 26' Black Watch.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:45 PM
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conehead39 - 12/2/2008 8:25 PM

We be talking about them Big Honda outboards,, see title "Re:Bigger Hondas."

Now from the official Honda Marine web site.

225HP

2nd paragraph.... Based on Honda's world -renowned Odyssey engine ...........

i am not saying it is not good. honda did a good job marinizing it.

http://www.honda-marine.com/modelDet...delGroup=BF225

Don't have a clue where the 2 hp Honda came from , nor do I care..


Don't forget Honda makes generators and Lawnmower engines so a 2hp motor can still have cross product utilization. It's not a car, but still.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:06 PM
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Triple Jack, the reason you see alot of the same outboards in certain countries south of the border is because the fisherman get a deal through the governments that buys a crud load of one outboard and gives them a huge disco. Go to Belize. Every panga has a 75HP yamaha 2 stroke.
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:32 PM
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Honda hasn't been this successful by making bonehead decisions like some people in Detroit! They seem to do their homework and spend, I mean invest their money into products that will make a positive return therefore not having to ask for a "bailout".If larger motors were enough of a money maker then I would think they would be there also.
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:43 PM
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Honda Dude, I was hoping for a big enough Honda to avoid twins to keep expenses down. With the economy the way it is I'm probably going to wait another season anyway. Maybe we'll be closer to an upgrade next year.
Thanks for your response.

Brian
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